Identifying coins from Pompeii encrusted with volcanic ash

Here is a picture of Pompeii gravel:

Bad ideas abound...

 

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@TypeCoin971793 why bad idea? you know the shang ding worth 500k to 1 million USD? I think it actually totally worth the risk to find one of these and smuggle it out of China. Chinese don't need it. it's better be in hand of some rich collectors in UK who appreciate the value of a shang ding .

 

Because it's stealing and you get entangled with some very bad people...

http://a.co/hUMyxLb

 

Very cool thanks for sharing!!

 

It’s attitudes like this that give us collectors a bad reputation - that instead of trying to preserve our heritage, we are just looking for personal profit and gain. It’s people engaging in this kind of activity which has lead to the strict import/export laws which are making it more difficult and more expensive to engage in this hobby. To take the attitude that finding an artifact and not reporting the find for personal gain robs all of us of the information that artifact can provide. These artifacts - coins included - each tell us a little more information about the past - money circulation, economic connections, wealth and status of individuals, trade patterns, mint activity, employment, tax and tribute payments, and I could probably keep going. To then even suggest stealing from such a rich and culturally significant site such as Pompeii is outrageous! You are not just stealing from Italy - you are stealing from the history of humanity, and thus stealing from us all.

 

arashpour, would it make any difference to you, if people told you it was legal or illegal to dig for coins, around Pompeii ? If you've survived Communist China, maybe you'll survive the wrath of Mount Etna. - I don't mind about shang ding, as long as you're not swearing at me !!!

 

Great post; couldn't have said it better myself.

 

There are certain blogs that seek out quotes just like that, for the sole purpose of bashing collectors.

Pompeii is significantly specifically because of its sealed and undisturbed nature, and the removal of even small objects would severely damage that context. It's the presence of those tiny, 'insignificant' things that tell us so much about Roman daily life, more so than any other source.

Most coins, on the other hand, tend to come from contexts that are either heavily disturbed (metal detecting in fields or previously agricultural areas) or didn't have much external context to begin with (hoards). Even those can reveal a lot if studied in bulk, which is why something like the UK Portable Antiquities Scheme is such a good idea.

 

If you can accept the Tiberius/Livia denarius as the Tribute Penny mentioned in the New Testament, then you can fantasise that any Roman coin struck prior to summer 79 AD could have possibly passed through Pompeii and thus be 'Pompeian', albeit briefly.

 

I agree that ancient items could be studied for finding info about past. but why it should be in museum if I have an item in my home as a collector still it can be studied and published if only info about past is what the concern is then I am ok to rent a piece of antique to an interested university or scholar for research but why as a private collector I shouldn't own it? taking that shang item out of China would probably preserve it way better than it being in it's original place. Many collectors have tools and much more care on their items than many museums in third world countries. let these gem be in the hand of who admire and appreciate them!!!

 

I REALLY do not like the way this thread went. It.feels.dirty.

Seems a similar line of thought, ...again...

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/trajan-coin-authentic-or-cast.318121/page-3#post-3106354

 

You’ll note that my post said nothing about coins being relegated to museums. I quite agree that many coins don’t need to be in museums, (not all - unique or rare often should be) and would be far more appreciated in private collections. The step you seem to be missing is the process of finding, gathering, and RECORDING the coins. This often provides more information than the coins themselves. Take the recent example of the man found in Pompeii whose head was crushed by a stone. He had coins on him, which then told us about his status amongst other things. Had a looter come in and stole those coins, we would have lost that knowledge. This is why many countries have such restrictive laws - EXACTLY because of what you are proposing to do, which just keeps MORE coins out of the hands of collectors. This is also why Britain’s Portable Antiquities Scheme is such a great compromise - it encourages metal detectorists to report their finds, they either get to keep their finds or are compensated, and Britain's museums have first crack at acquiring culturally significant items. Looters, again, rob from all of us.

@Alegandron - thanks for the reminder...

 

I totally agree with what you said but what I want to add is that many many countries specially in Asia have rules that altogether prohibits any dealing of antiquities including common coins. These countries often have mafia in government body that do under the table deals with outside countries they just want to keep the business in their hands and control it. For them they just don't want others (normal population) to be in this business. As for example you mentioned sure the coins with the dead body in Pompeii is very significant but after it was studied pictures taken and all studies done and published why those coins can not come into market and be sold?? What is the reason? if it was just for purpose of documentation now that documentation is done there is no reason for museum to want to keep these in their possession.

 

I agree with you in principal; there's nothing wrong with having coins and other artifacts in private ownership (obviously, considering I'm collecting them). The difference with the Pompeii example is that it's an established archaeological site, and everything needs to be kept, with its original context recorded, for future study. Every coin is part of a large puzzle, and if you take something out of it it becomes harder to see the whole thing. With archaeology it's important to be able to reconstruct the site, so there's lots of data recorded, and the artifacts are preserved at important sites like Pompeii, so they can be studied later. Less important sites don't always do this, and sometimes the artifacts do get sold.

There are more than enough coins out there that don't have a context like that to satisfy collectors, and if we had systems like the Portable Antiquities Scheme everywhere more minor sites and finds would get found and reported, adding to our knowledge base, while at the same time satisfying collectors. Coin hoards don't have much context outside themselves, but can tell us a lot of examined in aggregate; the location of contemporary hoards in relation to one another can be used to track military activity, for instance.

 

I totally agree but I tell you this for sure I know in some middle eastern countries like Iran as an example there were cases that local villagers found pots full of ancient sasanian gold coins which could worth millions but because of government policies the person who found them just melt the coins in order to keep it as gold and sell the gold weight which is painful and very very sad. So countries with strict rules such this would actually cause a lot of damages such as this example to happen on ancient valuable artifacts .

 

The problem is you were suggesting you would personally go to this site and find coins yourself, and smuggle them out of the country without reporting the find.

That is theft, and the reason why Italy has such strict export laws.

 

That’s why I mentioned the UK Portable Antiquities Scheme as a good system. While they might take finds of great significance, they always compensate the finders, fairly as far as I know. And 99% of the time the finder keeps it, because most funds aren’t that significant.

 

Yes I agree with you septimusT but in countries like china and Iran who don't have fair rules similar to England, good for them let people loot and take it out until those countries learn by price to fix their rules!!!

 

I have a few coins found in Pompeii, they have sold them in the past at the gift shop to raise money for the site. I bought mine at 5 bucks a pop.

 

I’d bet good money that they were just generic low-grade Roman coins, not ones actually found in Pompeii