Featured How to buy US coins that are good values, and not get victimized.

Please quote my prior posts where I say anything about books being stupid or that I don't want to be educated. If it is easier for you to do you could cut and paste where I said any of those things. But I can save you the trouble. I never said anything about not knowing about coins being good. My only point is that I think very small purchases of coins made concurrently with the books you are reading can be more educational.

Imagine. You are the beginner and started with Morgan's. As you read your book you glance every now and then at the pcgs ms 62 1881s Morgan you bought for $42 at Apmex. Read a paragraph, glance at the hair. Another paragraph, the tail feathers. This is how I do coins. I like to hold one while learning so I can look at the real thing for reference.

I don't look down on people who buy low value coins. But at this point in my life I probably do have what most would call a nice collection. Please feel free to look for yourself. I start posting coins on page 7 and 8 and I believe quite a few further in. I understand you are having technical difficulties so I will try to help as much as I can. I don't expect you to know what a pattern is but I'm happy to show you a few of mine.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/post-your-coin-porn.249156/page-7



This is my favorite I own so I use it for my avatar ( my picture next to my name)



I do expect you to know what a mint state svdb penny is though.

Um I didn't know we were here to directly compete. I come here to talk and learn about coins. But if you want to get into a "who makes more money" pissing contest then show me your coins and see how they stack to mine. No I'm not going to run off and post coins I don't own. Actually Im not going to post any because I already have posted them.

I'm pretty hard on myself especially when I review my achievements. having a college, doctorate and two post doctorate degrees I honestly could have gotten a third post doc but realistically I just don't have it in me to do anymore training. But I'm not here to talk about my professional knowledge base I'm here to talk coins so that will conclude my pissing in our contest.

I will ask this. Why are you so angry? I said people could learn by reading the book with a coin in hand. How is that an offensive idea that sets of this hateful rant of your?

Actually I would feel upset that my wife spent a lot of money on a set of books when I can wiki for free.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

@Vegas Vic I like your junk box, do you plan on selling its content for a profit?

 

The only way I'm selling is under court order. Sorry my scrap isn't up for sale

 

Well I have ended this. If I choose to stick around I will post some of my junk. Not for you or anyone else to poke at but because I like to share, I like to help and I love to learn. So you have money and of course that generally comes with some sort of an education. I have explained what happened if you want an apology its yours. I Apologize that is the best and All I will do. If that is good for you that is good, if it isn't well to bad. We don't have to be friends (although I pretty much like everyone), or not? You have some nice coins and that's a good thing. I'm sure we all do. This will be the end of this post as far as I'm concerned as I asked way earlier for this to be over. If it makes you feel good to continue that's good.
I have Apologized and to me that is a good thing. Ibguessbit is up to you, either let it go or keep hounding. All up to you. But either way if I stay it will have nothing to do with you, if I leave it has nothing to do with you. Have a good night. I will.

 

Thank you sir. It surly does. Now I have a better feel for the way this site works. I'm sure if I stick around I will be more then sure NOT to post a reply until I have replied. Have a great night. Thanks for the words. It helps someone to know that it is not ok to mess up how you do things but that if you do mess up you don't get an anchor tied to your feet.
Thanks again and have a good night.

 

One of the the more valuable posts ^^ of the last several pages got drowned out by the fight.

I don't consider myself old school. I'm only 34. But I too appreciate books for what they are and much of the best info is NOT free as green mentioned above.

I'm not singling anyone out or looking to start a new fight but anyone who would say books are useless now because of the internet is a fool.

I started a new buffalo nickel set a few years back. I bought the Whitman redbook guide to buffalo and jefferson nickels. It goes into detail about each nickel for the set. What to expect when looking for particular ones and why the details are mostly great on one from one mint and mostly poor on another from another mint.

Its all together in one place on a shelf. I don't have to do a google search and read through endless B.S. to mine an ounce of data I'm looking for. Using that method alone I may miss out on info and never know what I don't know about it. In this case the book was reasonably priced and well worth it. I would've paid more for it. This is one small example in action.

There are many good books I'm sure I'm not even aware of that I should own for my particular interests. I have another one on New Orleans gold coins. Its worth it to have all of the data I want compiled in one place where I can grab it whenever I want and look something up. Much of the info I would not find online.
To appease the hyenas of this thread, I totally agree. If somebody wants to buy a $20 coin without reading a book, it doesn't matter. When I was just getting back in, the first coin I bought was a capped bust half. Didn't know a damn thing about them. I think I paid $70 for it. Its a 1820 over 19. Its a scratched/damaged coin.

It wasn't the smartest purchase I ever made but I still have it and I still like it as an interesting piece. It looks cool.

There aren't that many of that variety so they are somewhat rarer. It wouldn't be at the top of my list now but as a more unique variety I don't regret the purchase. If somebody wanted to buy it from me Id pass and keep the coin. So in this instance I wasn't harmed by being ignorant. The danger is when more time progresses and people start advancing in their collection before becoming somewhat educated in what they're doing.

I prefer to use all available resources and convenience does play a roll. I only expect so much from a google search. If I need to know the height of any mountain or skyscraper, it works great.

If I need specific coin info, I'm going to have every dealer, eBay auction and coin forum pop up to wade through. Probably end up reading a thread like this. (Yawn. Don't have time.)

 

Interesting method of not starting fights.

 

Anyone who presented a book or two in this topic, has made the effort not to come across like an illiterate farmer, straight from his field. Some just want to pop in with their catch phrase for beginners "BUY THE BOOK BEFORE THE COIN", without any specifics. Give the beginner some examples of worthwhile books, title ideas, price point ideas, or they will end up with crappy, redundant publishings, commonly found on the rack at a show or in their coin shop.

There is plenty to start with on the internet, for free, while you pick up some coins for your intended hobby. Unless, your intended hobby is book collecting, in which case, go buy your books.

I am also glad some people take the time to review and reference concrete titles. It means that a beginner can come here, start reading and getting an idea for free, in topics such as these...

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/post-your-numismatic-literature.228947/page-2

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/book-review-the-art-and-science-of-grading-coins.256924/

If you are a beginner, make sure you have some coins that interest you to look at, in hand, before you start searching for or reading your books. Who knows, you might encounter a wise man here on the forum, who will claim the evidence is in the books, only to reverse that claim a few posts later, by saying the evidence is in the coins. Sounds like you should have your coins and do your reading at the same time. Don't get intimidated by searching on Google, like some people seem to get. Start with the internet, it's free. Leaves more money for coins. Happy collecting!

 

Well you are right. There are so many books to reference for the beginner to name them all.
I would suggest for your first book maybe The official Red Book "A Guide Book of United States Coins". This book has every coin minted by the United States, it gives you a VERY Basic start to grading each coin series (I did say VERY BASIC). It allowes you to get a look and see what coins may trip your trigger and it gives you a look at what the prices are for these coins (keep in mind that even if this book has just came out it is already a year old but a great reference).
I would maybe suggest the next purchase to be (not a book but still great reference) maybe a magazine, maybe something like Coin World. It has many Great stories and very informative.
As a beginner (which isn't his this started) you really don't (in my opinion) need to go out and get every book on the shelf. Most are specialty books and unless you know what coin or coins you would like to start with you don't need a shelf full of things you probably won't read for a while.
So with this said these would be (in my opinion) the best for a person just getting started and even the more advanced collectors.
When you decide if and what you want to collect their will be lots of time to get the books that meet your needs. Now the statement "Buy the Book before the Coin" I stick with.

 

Thank you, for the compromise.

... and to determine what you might wish to start with, it doesn't hurt to have a few interesting coin examples on hand and in hand.

Absolutely.

Sure, when you wish to dive into a specific series or already have a clear vision of your collecting goals. Most beginners don't.

 

If someone is starting from scratch a simple redbook is filled with good info. They're common, inexpensive and can teach a beginner very quickly how things began and how we got where we are at. The beginning and end of the book is worth a read for beginners. The middle is filled with everything available to collect. The price guide may be off but at least its going to give some ballpark estimates to the beginner. It will show errors and varieties to look for.

It will show an 09-S vdb is worth a hefty sum compared to the rest of the series. It doesn't matter if the price is off. At least it quickly illustrates that its not a $10 coin. Most are going to be in the 800 to 2k 'range.' If somebody wishes to pursue pricing info further than that, they can.

I think we could've trimmed pages off of this thread if we could agree that peoples interests vary greatly in how they wish to enjoy the hobby.

Some may be fly by night collectors that may be here today gone tomorrow and could never commit to reading a book.

Others tend to be more intellectual and may enjoy the education of reading just as much as buying a coin.

So then people want to have a long debate over who is right or wrong when we should be offering advice, tips and yes maybe even books. And if someone doesn't like the advice, they can choose to ignore it and move on while some may accept it and benefit.

 

When I started collecting in the very early '60s there was no internet, I was 7.

We had a used Red Book, the banks, the blue Whitman albums and 2x2s. We used the grading standard in the Red Book, that's it. The '64 Red Book had G-VG-F-XF-UNC on most coins. That's how we learned. If your Buffalo nickel was a nice F but not quite XF we would write F+ or VF on the 2x2....

Dang, I miss those days..................sometimes.

 

Yes, it is important to buy the books that are helpful to you. My short list that should be helpful to any collector is as follows.

The Red Book. For the general information. Not for the pricing.

The Official ANA Grading Standards. Grading skills are important at any level of collecting.

The Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection by PCGS. This book is one of the best to learn from.

When you get to a particular series, it's best to talk with those that collect that series before buying the first book you see. With some series there may be several good books but one or two that are great. Many of the great ones hold their value and some are worth many times what they cost when published. If you get out of collecting a series the best books are easy to sell. Just like coins, the best are easy to sell.

With that said, it's important to buy what is best for you. That could be a few dollars or several hundred dollars. It's what's best for you.

 

I think a red book is a great place to start and a terrible place to finish. You get great basic info from a red book. Mintages, a view of every standard coin minted. But I think the red book is so basic that I shiver at the idea someone reads a red book even cover to cover and then jumps right into to a purchase. The prices are totally inflated and a beinner and there is no grading.

This is my advise to the beginner buying coins.

1. I don't buy coins unless they are pcgs or ngc certified.

2. I subscribe to the grey sheet and coin facts and use heratige and ebay completed sales data to get an understanding of the range of value a particular coin has. While every coin truly is unique and valued as such, with tpg grading you can still get a generic range where your coin lies. Comparing the coin you are looking at with the databases available is enormously helpful.

3. Toned coins don't value according to white coin values. Understand buying a toned coin is a specialized nitch

4. Error coins have a range but are very hard to pin down exact value. View many errors completed sales of similar coins to get a concept of market value for the specific error.

5. Prior to buying a specific coin I will usually Google that coin to see what my purchasing options are. Better deals are hiding everywhere online.

6. Check the cert numbers in the pcgs or ngc database prior. Sometimes not only do you see the coin but also prior sales of that specific coin.

7. Posting the coin here prior to purchasing and asking questions can help. Just be careful you don't wait too long to then buy the coin or others might beat you to it. Making a "guess the grade" thread using a picture of the coin you want to buy can give you an understanding of how others grade the coin you are looking at.

8. When buying off eBay or other sites finding the sellers own website can sometimes get you a nice discount as the person then doesn't have to pay ebay fees. Googling the coin details will sometimes bring you to the dealers website. Other times the sellers name or Id will get you to their own website. When you do this just be very careful that the person you are buying from is a reputable dealer because you lose your ebay buyer protection by doing this. You can then contact the dealer outside of ebay or the other system and ask them for a better price then they listed in ebay.

Ethics. I don't use the ebay system and email them via eBay to do this. If I can use the visable information to find the person and then make a deal it is to me different then flat out using the ebay system and emailing the seller via eBay to then go outside ebay. But everyone has to use their own ethics here. It is certainly possible to use a disposable account and repeatable use eBay to ask dealers to do this.

9. When buying or considering buying at a show I always compare the coin in front of me to my internet options.

10. Until you really know what you are doing keep your purchases under $100. That way you minimize your exposure.

 

Thank you but that really wasn't a compromise. The tread was how to buy coins without getting victimized. It had nothing to due with being a new collector. I have many people ask all the time (that have been collecting for some time) and I tell them the same thing. It may be implied that it is for a new collector but it didn't say that. Some people buy coins as an investment so they buy what is a high purchase and can't figure out why their investment isn't going anywhere. I try to explain that just because youwho wants $500.00 (just a reference) for a coin doesn't mean it is worth more then $5.00 (again just a reference). So I tell them the same thing (book before coin) some have taken my advise and their investment has gone up.
I didn't know that this was suppose to be for a person just starting out? It didn't say that. But Thank you. Again it wasn't a compromise. I'm not going anywhere so if you wish to check out a tread I will post FOR NEW COLLECTORS please feel free. I'm sure there will be much for some to bash. Thanks

 

And when you read this thread only three posters give detailed step by step ideas. Everyone else just pops in, gives nonactionable advise and moves on.

 

It clearly says just that in the first paragraph of the first post. I think the reason you feel you are being bashed is that you show up pages into a discussion, you clearly haven't read the prior pages and you start giving your opinions. The reason people started taking your post apart is that we had an argument running for pages on the idea that a person who is brand new could safely buy a couple coins first or if they had to buy multiple books prior to buying a single coin. When you start posting some people assume your have been following the discussion and have something to say.

Next time read the thread prior to posting. I do know some here feel posting first and not reading second is a way to go but if you don't like how this experience has gone for you and you clearly don't, think about how you entered the conversation and next time read first. You keep telling people to read a book first yet you don't follow your own advise when giving strangers your opinion.

The below post was just a sarcastic remark critical of others proudly doing what you just did, not true advise to be followed.

 

I really wish we were both reading the same thread, especially the first paragraph, as @Vegas Vic already clarified above ...thanks.

 

@David Hughes Let me toss in a couple more clarifying examples as to the intentions of this thread, from the OP. Here we have excerpts from posts #63 and #65, please take the time to familiarize yourself with a thread before assuming everyone is out to get you...

--------------------------------------

I'm not sending you anywhere. You've been ranting about leaving and arranging your own departure within your posts. We were not part of that. You're right, hard to call it a compromise, when you don't even know what you're responding to and why you are getting responses to your response. Read the thread, first.

I have no intention on specifically searching out one of your threads for NEW COLLECTORS, just to bash. I think the confusion you created here for yourself is what resulted in you getting defensive and planning your departure. Now, you claim that you're staying. Great. You can be sure, that if I ever do end up in a topic that you have started, I will READ and UNDERSTAND what is being said, before I jump in with my response. That's a promise.