how do you spot fake Trade Dollars, anyway?

I have a folder with many pictures like this one. One such (reduced) is my avatar for CoinPeople.

Fake Trade Dollars are counterfeit US Currency and are contraband. That means that they can be seized without a warrant. They are unlawful to own. Period.

 

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fake trade dollars

I have some that came in weighing 17.6 and 19.7 grams ,some the reverse was 60 to 75 % off from the obverse. and I have found out after looking at these fakes (All sent back by PCGS) that the metal has a certain look . I cannot describe it but I can see it in a decent picture or in a cointain . after buying 1/2 a dozen fakes you tend to stare at them a lot. If there is anything that the pit of your stomach says fake ,trust it . You will be better off to pass ,even if you misss the very occasional real one.

 

Can you point out the identifiers for the fake PCGS slab in these photos?

 

Yeah I didn't even spot my fake until sparrow pointed it out to me, not a trade dollar but a fake just the same. Great info on these trade dollars. I was gonna buy a trade dollar and was eyeballing ebay until I joined this forum, lucky I didn't. Oh here's my fake that just got found out last night. I never realized it, bought it in June and never thought about it again until last night. thx again ksparrow

http://www.cointalk.com/t68935/

 

I'm sorry it turned out to be a fake! I always hope I'm wrong in those situations. But, you're welcome and I hope I was helpful in the long run.

PCGS fake slabs: Susan Headley, in one of her articles, posted images of real and fake PCGS slabs, with the diagnostics helpfully pointed out by the Chinese forger who made them! I don't know what I did with the link. On the slab pictured above, 2 things stand out: the innermost vertical bars of the slab "frame" extend to far up. The paper on the label is the wrong weight, normally you can see a faint shadow of the round holographic medallion to the left of the printing, when looking at the obverse. There are other tells, I just don't remember them now.

 

Crusty, check for an email from me about that subject.

 

Does the holder belong to you or PCGS . Did they ask before they keep it?

 

Not mine. posted by a member of an anti-counterfeit group I belong to.

 

Excellent posts! In general I agree you should avoid eBay as a source of T$ - unless you are very confident of the seller. Positive feedback means nothing.
I collect chopmarked pedigreed coins, especially from older collections that have a long history of documentation [catalogues, plate coins]. Each chopmarked coin is unique [and beautiful in my opinion]. It's worth spending the extra money for the pedigree.

 

Something like that! I would only buy from a dealer i new that is
Trustworthy!!

 

fake trade dollars

I have onetrade dollar that is real and 8 that are fakes . I keep the fakes so I may show people what they look like. Most offen they look too good as the pics show . Damn Chinese. Both the US and the Chinese governments are awre of this guy and will not do anything. I bet If I sent some fake gold pandas back to china things would happen . I just do not buy them anymore .a shame ,cause they are beautiful and scarce. Weren't made for many years. Thanks for letting me get some steam off. Nasty subject. Pay $350 for a PCGS 1878 cc trade dollar and not only is the dollar a fake ,so is the holder.

 

I guess this would be the right thread to post this, and as many of you say, you can't be 100% sure if something is fake or real just by photos, but judging by looks, what do you all think?

I got it at a coin show last year from a respected dealer. It was hanging out in his little display box with other trade dollars, both slabbed and raw. It's obviously cleaned pretty harshly, there's no question about that. I honestly have never weighed it as I don't have a scale, so I'll have to get back to everyone on that! And as you can see, it has some pretty significant doubling on the reverse, most of which has details that I doubt a casting could pick up, but I figure I'll throw it up to here, and in this thread (either as an example of real or fake). Thanks to all who look and thanks to everyone for the wonderful info that's posted here!

 

Yes, it is criminal to distribute or sell counterfeit US money with the intent to defraud, but the statutes do not criminalize mere possession of counterfeit money, concluded Armen R. Vartian in a November 5, 2001, Coin World column titled "Owning Counterfeits." As a lawyer, numismatist, Coin World legal columnist, and author of the book A Legal Guide to Buying and Selling Art and Collectibles, Vartian is the most visible numismatic legal expert in the U.S.

There's no indication, according to reports and the literature, that anyone has been arrested, fined, jailed, or had their transportation seized for possession of a counterfeit coin without intent to defraud in the U.S. since the Secret Service, an agency of the U.S. Treasury, began policing against counterfeits in 1865, and there's no indication that the Secret Service plans to reverse this policy of a century and a half.

The statutes involved are as follows: Title 18, Part I, Chapter 25 (Counterfeiting and Forgery) of the U.S. Code, Sections 485, 489, and 492 deal with counterfeits of U.S. and world coins. The Hobby Protection Act of 1973 (Title 15, Chapter 48, Sections 2101 through 2106 of the U.S. Code, plus 1988 amendments) deals with counterfeits of ancient coins.

I enjoyed this thread immensely, I just wanted to clarify this issue.

Happy Collecting

 

It should weigh about 27 grams . Go to the local flea market and buy some cheap electronic scales /I bet it weighs about 19 grams . I do not buy them any more due to the robbery going on. The chinese even counterfiet the PCGS case . So what is a guy gonna do ?

 

The Chinese have got this coin down to a science, With exacting standards
For the avg collector it would be almost impossible!!

 

the 1878-S DDR above looks to be genuine to me. that is a scarce variety. There is also nice doubling on the base of the 4,2, and lowest arrow. My example also has a retained cud on the right wing of the eagle, not seen here. Too bad it was cleaned. this coin may have been uncirculated or high AU-- almost no wear to be seen! The dentils look good from here. Great coin for type/Dansco.

 

Well that's great to hear! I'm going to go pick up a scale tomorrow and finally weigh the thing, but I'm glad most of the details match yours. Quite possible yours is later die state or something. Thanks for the input as well! And you're exactly right, it resides in my Dansco type set album.

 

So, I'm wondering what it weighed ...

Glyn, Tokyo

 

I bought an 1875 Trade Dollar this week at a shop where a numismatist had apparently validated it as real. A lot of chop marks on back and reverse. I bought it into another shop for an opinion, he said it was fake. It weighs what it is supposed to. I called the first shop up and the guy said he would accept a return.

 

If goincarcrazy is reading this can you please post the result of your weigh test? TIA

Glyn