Graded Gold Bullion?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by myownprivy, May 18, 2018.

  1. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    What is your opinion?
    Do you believe it is worth spending $25 dollars more on a perfect 70 1oz gold bullion coin? For example, a one ounce Eagle or Maple is around $50 over spot, but a perfect 70 Gold Buffalo is only around $75 over spot. Ebay seems to indicate a $150+ premium on average for perfect 70 gold Buffaloes.

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  3. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer ad astera per aspera

    Depends, maybe if it a lower mintage or special commemorative,
  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Depends how you intend to eventually liquidate it. If you are going to sell it on eBay, fine, nice holder. But if you would ever sell to a dealer, the practical premium is zero, and I have no doubt it will remain so.

    As a general rule, slabbing modern bullion issues is an idiotic idea.
  5. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    Yes, thank you.
    It does seem that the only practical way to make money on this is the nondealer route. And that it's the immediate future. Because who knows how graded bullion would be viewed in 50 years.

    Plus, I should not be an irrational, impatient idiot and buy gold today. It will likely fall another 5-10% this summer anyway as interest rates continue to rise.
  6. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    Personally, I have no value in slabbed bullion.
    yes, I understand the various concepts behind it.

    If you read enough you'll find, generally
    1 - your bullion ppl value bullion in coins, proof coins, rounds etc as strictly bullion and should be priced as such
    2 - your "coin" collectors who collect bullion coins who hold a numismatic value of the coin which is bullion + Premium
    3 - your dealers, when they buy who value them, generally as $ Spot - a small amount (in many cases even slabbed proofs). When they sell they want the higher price.
    4 - end collectors who may value it as a premium.
    5 - your TV personalities who value it as Slabbed + super, sky high premium above actual market value.

    Of course, this is when the economy is doing really well. In a downturn economy when spending on misc. "luxury" items drops the value gets much closer to spot in most instances.

    The more you are in need of the cash, in a short turnaround, the closer to spot you get irregardless of what it is.
    V. Kurt Bellman likes this.
  7. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Previous posters nailed it. Regardless the holder or spectacular finish..... Bullions real value is spot.
    Santinidollar likes this.
  8. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    When selling, you have to try to eliminate the middle man, as @Clawcoins indicated. You need a way to get it to the next eventual longterm holder of the piece.

    Generally speaking, that's the trick in this hobby, isn't it?
  9. Sullysullinburg

    Sullysullinburg Well-Known Member

    It does help if you ever try to sell it being in a slab, less likely to be fake, makes selling a bit easier escpically if you sell it somewhere that isn’t eBay because there is no buyer protection.
    Garlicus likes this.
  10. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    When does bullion cross into being a collectible is the question.

    Now, there are registries and folks who do blur that line of collecting vs. stacking. Myself, I have drifted away from that. Nice though that my 1 oz gold Chinese Unicorn went for about 4x spot in a trade (in a 69 slab) vs. the 1.1 x spot I paid for it raw.

    If you are STACKING, then an MS-70 slab vs. a 69, 68, or really anything else is kind of silly. It helps for liquidity and 'genuine' comfort when doing electronic sales...but IF IT'S JUST BULLION TO YOU, then a 70 is not cost effective.

    If you are COLLECTING what amounts to bullion coins (and I don't judge that, there is some pretty bullion out there) then buy what you like. Just be aware on the UNC versions (vs. proof) any premium will dry up when trying to sell.
  11. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    From my standpoint, I would only buy a graded bullion proof. I see the argument that a slab would (hopefully) reassure a buyer of a regular bullion coin of authenticity, but it would be a highly iffy proposition to get the premium back.

    I’d highly suggest not buying ANY gold bullion coin from anybody but a well-known reputable dealer. But I think you already know that!:D
    Garlicus likes this.
  12. PeacePeople

    PeacePeople Wall St and stocks, where it's at

    While I'm not a fan of slabbed modern bullion, if the price was the same I'd buy a 69 or 70. That's usually not the case unless it's a problem coin, and then I'd pass. Basically, if there is no premium attached and it is a problem free coin, then I'd buy the graded coin. I would not pay any premium for the plastic
  13. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    The only value IMHO is peace of mind that the slabber believed it to be authentic. If its an authentic slab, (another discussion entirely), then I do see at least a little value of that guarantee. Now, would a 68, 69, or 70 grade matter to me? Not at all, since it is only the genuineness guarantee I would desire.
    Garlicus likes this.
  14. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    The grading of any bullion, is for a lack of a better word retarded !!
    as it is next to impossible to get your premium back over spot price
    but its your money.....LOL
  15. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    Gold Maple:
    * near impossible to counterfeit and easy to verify authenticity, therefore easy to resell without question
    * Modest over spot price (about $50)
    * Buy back is always spot + a percent or two over

    Drawback: I have too many already

    Graded 70 Gold Buffalo
    * Secured in case already
    * Easy to authenticate due to grading and therefore easier to resell
    * Currently selling for $150+ over spot on average online
    * Would sell back for at least spot plus a little over to a coin shop at a minimum

    * about $75 over spot to buy instead of $50 for a gold Maple
    * The possibility that that it is loose inside the slab or has copper spots or other flaw post grading, hence the very low premium over spot on

    I am still leaning toward buying a Maple. Other thoughts?
  16. Stork

    Stork I deliver Supporter

    If you're stacking go for the lowest over spot.
  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is basically no premium at all for it.

    Well for the last 32 years grading has done nothing but consistently expand including world wide, there's no reason to think that 50 years from now would be any different. Grading is here to stay
  18. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Way too simplistic. You have to take into account what discount/premium to spot you will get when you sell. Buying generic gold bars at lower premium today may not be a good buy if the discount to spot is larger when you sell. Usually the lowest premium product will have the greatest discount when it comes to sell.
  19. Gilbert

    Gilbert Part time collector Supporter

    On March 16, 2009 I purchased a 2006-W $50 Gold Buffalo NGC PF-69 Ultra Cam for $1125 when the spot price of gold was $923. The premium in this case was about 22% over spot. Recent realized auction prices at flea bay for similar coins are in the $1430 range, meaning an 11% premium over spot. Could my return on investment been better had I purchased a piece strictly for the bullion content? Possibly. Worth mentioning is I do not know what PF-70 examples were fetching at the time, so can't do a comparison. Bottom line for me was purchasing a certified example of an attractive coin with a classic design, and very little to do with investing in gold.
  20. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    If your investing in Gold, buying graded examples of bullion coins is not a great
    Idea, the premiums are way to high and more then the majority of the time you
    Get a negative return.

    With that said, if your purely collecting trying to find the best examples and
    Not really caring about the investing part then go for it, and as always collect
    What makes you feel good.
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