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<p>[QUOTE="InfleXion, post: 1697071, member: 29012"]Gosh, what a sloppy hit piece misreprenting us bugs. Let's set the record straight instead of taking a gold bear's assumptions about what the gold bug arguments are. </p><p><br /></p><p>#1 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - <i>Gold is currency</i> - Wrong. Gold is money. Currency is whatever is circulating to settle debts. Money is whatever fulfills the requirements for a unit of account and a store of wealth.</p><p><br /></p><p>#2 Misunderstanding - <i>Price of gold cannot fail, only manipulated lower</i> - Gold price (paper) and price of gold (physical) are 2 different things. Gold price can be manipulated, but the price of gold will only be what someone is truly willing to sell for. Gold price can fail, price of gold can't. </p><p><br /></p><p>#3 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - <i>If the price of gold is rising, it is doing so despite enormous and desperate efforts by manipulators to prevent the rise</i> - The "gold price" does nothing without the efforts of the manipulators, whether up or down. All movement in paper markets is manipulated via leverage until such time as the physical market takes precedence, or at least until the paper market has zero leverage. Until then we can only guess what the price should truly be. </p><p><br /></p><p>#4 Falsehood - <i>The world MUST return to the Gold Standard one day</i> - This does not have to happen. It should happen, and Eastern nations are positioning themselves to benefit from it, but as long as every government and central bank in the world is cooperating with each other they can print fiat forever. Of course the price of gold will react accordingly. </p><p><br /></p><p>#5 Misunderstanding - <i>Central Bankers are printing money relentlessly, and this can only drive Gold prices higher</i> - No, money printing is only indirectly related to price inflation. Monetary velocity is the key component, and as long as newly printed money is not in circulation it neutralizes the inflationary effects until such time as it is circulating. That money can be destroyed before it hits the open market, but that isn't very likely since the solvency of the banking system relies upon it. </p><p><br /></p><p>#6 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - <i>Gold works whether the economy is good or bad</i> - This is twisting the original assertion which is that gold protects from both hyperinflation and default, but it does not protect against deflation. Too much deflation will lead to default, but if that doesn't happen and we do have indefinite deflation cash is a better investment from a pure profit standpoint, though gold and silver will always be superior from an intrinsic value standpoint. Gold is not an industrial metal. The economy has nothing to do with it with the exception of how much disposable income the citizenry has and what they choose to spend it on.</p><p><br /></p><p>#7 Truth - <i>Gold will survive after the world economy crumbles</i> - This was ridiculed but no attempt was made to discredit this. </p><p><br /></p><p>#8 Falsehood - <i>Never admit that Gold is essentially a sucker’s bet</i> - Hmmm, from $20 to $42 to $300 to $1000... outperformed stocks since 2000, still in positive territory over the last 5 years even after the largest smackdown in over 2 decades. Sucker's bet how exactly? Massive selloffs happen in every market. If that's the criteria for a sucker's bet there isn't any other kind of bet. </p><p><br /></p><p>#9 Truth - <i>Gold is a rejection of government, and their control of fiat money and finance</i> - Again ridiculed, but no attempt to discredit. </p><p><br /></p><p>#10 Falsehood/Assumption - <i>All Gold discussions must contain ominous macro forecasts</i> - No. It has to do with real interest rates, plain and simple. Negative real interest rates are bullish for metals. Positive real interest rates are good for cash. Ominous forecasts may be a result of the same causation that leads to higher gold prices, but that's just collateral. </p><p><br /></p><p>#11 Truth/Misunderstanding - <i>Gold is always rallying in one currency or another</i> - There is always something rallying in one currency or another. I have never heard this argument as support for gold, but it's a dumb argument to make.</p><p><br /></p><p>#12 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - <i> China & India know the value of Gold; the Western world does not</i> - It's not a matter of not knowing the value, it's a matter of priorities. Western nations prioritize debt based currency. Eastern nations prioritize wealth. </p><p><br /></p><p>#13 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - <i>Bonus rule: Never admit Gold might be falling because it trades on human emotions and psychology and has no intrinsic value whatsoever</i> - The "price of gold" (physical) trades entirely on human emotion and psychology, as all value is derived from the human mind. Without that nothing would have any value. However this value for gold is 100% intrinsic because it has no practical use. If not for the intrinsic value it would be far less valuable than silver. The "gold price" (paper) trades entirely on leveraged paper contracts that nobody can know the underlying reasons for except for the paper traders.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="InfleXion, post: 1697071, member: 29012"]Gosh, what a sloppy hit piece misreprenting us bugs. Let's set the record straight instead of taking a gold bear's assumptions about what the gold bug arguments are. #1 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - [I]Gold is currency[/I] - Wrong. Gold is money. Currency is whatever is circulating to settle debts. Money is whatever fulfills the requirements for a unit of account and a store of wealth. #2 Misunderstanding - [I]Price of gold cannot fail, only manipulated lower[/I] - Gold price (paper) and price of gold (physical) are 2 different things. Gold price can be manipulated, but the price of gold will only be what someone is truly willing to sell for. Gold price can fail, price of gold can't. #3 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - [I]If the price of gold is rising, it is doing so despite enormous and desperate efforts by manipulators to prevent the rise[/I] - The "gold price" does nothing without the efforts of the manipulators, whether up or down. All movement in paper markets is manipulated via leverage until such time as the physical market takes precedence, or at least until the paper market has zero leverage. Until then we can only guess what the price should truly be. #4 Falsehood - [I]The world MUST return to the Gold Standard one day[/I] - This does not have to happen. It should happen, and Eastern nations are positioning themselves to benefit from it, but as long as every government and central bank in the world is cooperating with each other they can print fiat forever. Of course the price of gold will react accordingly. #5 Misunderstanding - [I]Central Bankers are printing money relentlessly, and this can only drive Gold prices higher[/I] - No, money printing is only indirectly related to price inflation. Monetary velocity is the key component, and as long as newly printed money is not in circulation it neutralizes the inflationary effects until such time as it is circulating. That money can be destroyed before it hits the open market, but that isn't very likely since the solvency of the banking system relies upon it. #6 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - [I]Gold works whether the economy is good or bad[/I] - This is twisting the original assertion which is that gold protects from both hyperinflation and default, but it does not protect against deflation. Too much deflation will lead to default, but if that doesn't happen and we do have indefinite deflation cash is a better investment from a pure profit standpoint, though gold and silver will always be superior from an intrinsic value standpoint. Gold is not an industrial metal. The economy has nothing to do with it with the exception of how much disposable income the citizenry has and what they choose to spend it on. #7 Truth - [I]Gold will survive after the world economy crumbles[/I] - This was ridiculed but no attempt was made to discredit this. #8 Falsehood - [I]Never admit that Gold is essentially a sucker’s bet[/I] - Hmmm, from $20 to $42 to $300 to $1000... outperformed stocks since 2000, still in positive territory over the last 5 years even after the largest smackdown in over 2 decades. Sucker's bet how exactly? Massive selloffs happen in every market. If that's the criteria for a sucker's bet there isn't any other kind of bet. #9 Truth - [I]Gold is a rejection of government, and their control of fiat money and finance[/I] - Again ridiculed, but no attempt to discredit. #10 Falsehood/Assumption - [I]All Gold discussions must contain ominous macro forecasts[/I] - No. It has to do with real interest rates, plain and simple. Negative real interest rates are bullish for metals. Positive real interest rates are good for cash. Ominous forecasts may be a result of the same causation that leads to higher gold prices, but that's just collateral. #11 Truth/Misunderstanding - [I]Gold is always rallying in one currency or another[/I] - There is always something rallying in one currency or another. I have never heard this argument as support for gold, but it's a dumb argument to make. #12 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - [I] China & India know the value of Gold; the Western world does not[/I] - It's not a matter of not knowing the value, it's a matter of priorities. Western nations prioritize debt based currency. Eastern nations prioritize wealth. #13 Falsehood/Misunderstanding - [I]Bonus rule: Never admit Gold might be falling because it trades on human emotions and psychology and has no intrinsic value whatsoever[/I] - The "price of gold" (physical) trades entirely on human emotion and psychology, as all value is derived from the human mind. Without that nothing would have any value. However this value for gold is 100% intrinsic because it has no practical use. If not for the intrinsic value it would be far less valuable than silver. The "gold price" (paper) trades entirely on leveraged paper contracts that nobody can know the underlying reasons for except for the paper traders.[/QUOTE]
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Goldman lowers 12 month forecast of Gold to $1390
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