Gold: Pre 1933 Vs AGE

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by FryDaddyJr, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    you wouldn't get a cleaned one graded and it's cheaper by weight than the AGE
     
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  3. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    you have to compare apples to apples and personal taste, and will they always
    be cheaper and can they be redeemed as easily with out negotiation ?
     
  4. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    maybe. can you say the same for the francs, pesos, etc weird stuff people buy?
    First people say it's all about the premiums, now they say it's all about some local shop.
     
  5. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    The only thing you did "wrong" is calculate the premium in a dollar figure instead of in a percentage figure. You need to use a percentage figure when comparing things of different sizes. Since pre33 $20 gold pieces are .9675 ounces and a 1 oz Gold Eagle is 1 oz, it is not useful to see the dollar premium per coin. But we are interested in their premium over spot, (over the amount of gold you are buying).

    However, yes, a $20 cleaned st gaudens has the lowest percentage premium at the moment. I was wrong in my initial post to say Apmex has the highest prices. For Pre-33 gold, they seem to both be the only ones to have a huge variety in stock and seem to have lower prices.

    My assumption was based on buying current full 1 ounce bullion gold coins. Those are cheaper on Jmbullion and Provident.



    Gold spot: $1288

    AGE random date bu: $1346. 1 oz
    Premium is 5.1%
    https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-american-gold-eagle/#

    $20 Liberty head (cleaned) $1320.66 .9675 oz
    Premium is 5.65%
    (or you are paying $1365 per ounce, if you'd like to think about it that way)
    https://www.providentmetals.com/20-liberty-gold-double-eagle-coin-polished-cleaned.html

    $20 St Gaudens (cleaned) $1291.62 .9675 oz
    4.65% premium
    (or you are paying $1335 per ounce)
    https://www.apmex.com/product/9120/20-saint-gaudens-gold-double-eagle-cleaned



    But may I recommend we all buy my favorite instead?
    A 1 ounce Gold Maple.
    Random year is $1327. That is less than 3% over spot.
    https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-canadian-gold-maple-leaf-any-year/

    Or you could buy a current year 2019 gold Maple for $1337, or 3.7% over spot, featuring radial lines, a privy mark, and it can be authenticated with no hassle. Not to mention, it will be new and pristine.
    https://www.jmbullion.com/2019-1-oz-canadian-gold-maple-leaf/
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  6. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    APMEX is a little cheaper for a new Eagle

    upload_2019-4-15_22-6-54.png
     
  7. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    No it's not. $1343 is "as low as" $1358.09 is the cost for one. I have provided the cost for one in all my posts.
     
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  8. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    Maples are nice too...:)

    why is it your favorite?
     
  9. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    1. Design. Love the Maple Leaf. Don't like the Queen. But dislike both sides of the AGEs.
    2. Lower premium
    3. Security features
    4. Pure gold. Little to no risk of copper spotting or other problems.

    Really, number 3 is the most important reason to me.
     
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  10. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I've generally found that MS62 is a "sweet spot", where "generics" (e.g. 1924, 25, 27) can be located at close to XF-AU at slightly greater premiums.

    Occasionally you may find this grade with better date, mint-marked. I've found MS62 improperly graded coins that should CAC or upgrade appreciably.

    I've posted 2 comparative photos, where it's believed disparity between 2 PCGS graded coins can be seen, a MS65 vs an MS62. Although my camera couldn't properly show the MS62 1924 uniform cartwheel luster, NO wear/rub, full nose, only one small bag mark on the lower left leg, it shows virtually flawless fields, devices/rays. It cost ~40% of the 1907. The MS65 1907, I believe, should have been MS62, it's market graded/valued because of the date.

    JMHO
     

    Attached Files:

  11. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    certain grade points can be a real turn off :( if your going to buy only
    Graded exaples, i think your much better off sticking with raw coins.
     
  12. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    If you would rather purchase raw coins of questionable authenticity/grading/certification, I suggest you proceed with your action that normally might result in considerable expense/efforts to facilitate your goals?

    I already have an established "basis" for my efforts with an approved 1st tier grading certification.

    It appears your recommendation may be considerably less appetizing!

    JMHO
     
  13. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    have always been an advocate against the grading of bullion coins !
    But there are two separate trains of thought here, Saints and AGE
    The O.P is talking raw examples not graded ones.
     
  14. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the questioner had an official interpreter for his posts, and I may not have properly been informed, as I was responding to the following words:
    1. This was just going to be an APMEX purchase if that matters


    2. This was just going to be an APMEX purchase if that matters


    3. what grade would you get on a 20 dollar St Gauden's if it was you?
    I just believed/observed that the APMEX graded coins were from NGC and PCGS.

    I'll defer to your understandings of what others ask, and what is best! He may have been asking only you, the seemingly ultimate authoritative source, but I missed that directive. Do you often deal in this commodity? I'd appreciate supportive photos which show/outline your arguments, as I posted, and why you could alone dictate the grade on a raw coin.

    I'll try to avoid threads with your input. Did you ever answer his question with a proper supportive recommendation/reason? What Grade, why? I STAND CORRECTED/AWED by your response to my posts!!

    JMHO
     
  15. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    no need to get heated. it seems like the StGaudens is an attractive coin and that premiums have fallen. it also seems like buying them violates the non emotional investment in owning old coins. point three all gold oz coins are pretty damn nice
     
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  16. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    St Gaudens double eagles are like Lays potato chips. Once you own one and become mesmerized in the beauty of the piece, you will have to own more. Just a friendly warning.....
     
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  17. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    I already have a few :)
     
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  18. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I apologize if I appear "heated", which isn't true, merely relieved! The response was to an individual who ridiculed others for their decisions in the thread.

    He makes STATEMENT comments which are inaccurate, and I consider stupid/uninformed. I'd love to meet him in a judicial environment where statements are challenged. I believe he contributed little constructive information in his posts, and may improperly guide young Numismatists.

    Thanks for your patience, and hopefully understanding.

    Rich
     
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  19. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Well by the sound of your post, Your opinion is the only one that counts !!!
    And for one that is "STUPID AND UNINFORMED YOU ONLY NEED TO LOOK
    IN THE MIRROR"
     
  20. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    "Bullion is Bullion, be pre 1933 or AGE, you will pay way more in premium
    for the 33, and my question would be "Y" ?? i guess if your looking to
    Throw away money i guess that would be a good way to do it"

    I don't know where you get these ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS that you post as facts, and your attitude of ridicule towards individuals that purchase Numismatic material. Almost any informed individual on this site who's collected both AGE and Numismatic Gold coins will tell you which is preferred for value retention. It isn't the former!!

    I've tried collecting modern proof Gold since 1986, which can be sold today as bullion. If you had purchased Liberty or St. Gaudens AU condition Double Eagles having the same or lower mintage, at the same price as the proof Gold, it would generally have a greater grade than before, and considerably higher relative value than bullion Gold.

    This phenomena is even greater with the smaller Gold coins.

    If you know what you're doing (i.e. informed), today there's no difference except the Classic Gold is becoming more valuable/scarce.

    You've espoused inaccurate information without specifics,
    generally showing that which I've stated, with a "LOOK IN THE MIRROR" rebuttal. I've few peers, and like the mirror view.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Junior Member

    it looks like pre33 gold can be had at spot, but not much from online retailers.
     
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