Gold bullion, or Pre-33 gold?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Don P, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Don P

    Don P Active Member

    I'm looking to get into gold collecting and wondered if pre-33 gold will hold its value or even rise faster than regular bullion like gold eagles.

    I really like the $10 Indian head coins and have been thinking of condensing the solver I have and moving into gold.

    Any opinions? thanks.
     
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  3. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    My opinion is entirely based upon what pleases me.... I personally love holding the history of pre-33 gold. I have picked up a piece or two a year for many years now. I don't obsess over coin valuations, but it does not appear to me that the value of historical coinage is not quite as volatile as the bullion market. Although it is certainly tied to it.
     
  4. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    When gold bullion moves, you can generally expect numismatic gold to move less, both upward and downward.

    Said differently:
    • The more common the coin, the more volatile the price will be when gold moves.
    • The less common the coin, the more stable the price will be when gold moves.
    I like numismatic gold because it allows me to play while hedging against inflation and other currency crises.
     
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  5. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    I'm actually doing just that.
    But I like to collect certain gold US coins, not just "bullion"
    For instance on my current "top 3 to get list" is
    (1) 2014 - 3/4 oz Kennedy
    (2) a St Gaudens at AU+
    (3) a Liberty double eagle AU+

    If I was just after bullion I'd get the St Gaudens & Liberty cleaned/polish condition, which for example is currently $1327 with spot at $1351 for 0.9%.
    But I prefer the look of the coins over a small bar which should be closer to spot.

    The $10 Liberty's are nice too. And you'll pay quite less for cleaned/polished $665 then $689 AU+.

    So it also depends upon the quality that you like.
     
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  6. Don P

    Don P Active Member

    Are the polished or cleaned coins a good investment? I were to slab these, I'm sure the TPG would point this out.

    The premium between AU and MS is also maybe $30-50, so might not be bad to pickup an MS to hold on to for many years.
     
  7. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    Polished/Cleaned - they are NOT a good investment if you want to get them graded. Complete waste of money,

    If you are buying bullion coins at the cheapest $$ possible because they are "more bullion" than "numismatic" to you then it is.

    If you want "numismatic" then buy a graded Pre-33 instead of having one graded. you'll pay less that way overall.

    • Many think these are bullion coins and are only worth spot irregardless if slabbed or not.
    • Others think graded ones are worth more because they value it more than it's content.
    It all depends upon who you sell it to in the future and how the economy is in the future when you do sell them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  8. Don P

    Don P Active Member

    Thanks for the reply. BTW, why are you into the 2014 gold kennedy?
     
  9. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    I like it

    I like to collect the "series" of coins.

    For instance on my small dime collection I have a collection of dimes of each major type. Nothing special. but going back to an early dime. The 2016 Gold "dime" completes it. Same with quarters (2016 standing liberty gold complete that series for me), as with halves (2016 walking liberty gold), and that 2014 kennedy gold just completes (in my mind at least) the Kennedy series and halves.

    I don't collect Bullion bars as I like numismatic side of coins.
    But generally only ONE of a particular gold coin to "complete <something>"

    If I buy many of something it's like the ASE (Silver Eagle) / AGE (Gold Eagle) / APEs (Platinum Eagle) which are more bullion related except the APE which have difference images on the reverse of which I also collect "eagle" images .. so only the ones that I like.

    So I collect various things
    1 - Images of eagles of all coin denominations
    2 - a lineage of each coin design in each series for neat historical purposes.
    3 - bullion coins which I may collect many of such as I have a bunch of ASEs of various years, but I also have at least one of each year. But I have 20x of various years too. And AGE (gold) and APE (platinum). I have no interest in the Palladium coin though.

    Also, I generally do NOT buy slabbed coins. It doesn't offer me anything in my mind.
     
  10. Bman33

    Bman33 Well-Known Member

    If you are a collector and like to stack then Pre-33 is the way to go. Kill two birds with one stone. While I am pretty much a US Coins guy I have been dabbling in world gold coins too.
     
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  11. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Polished coins are always hard to get rid of unless heavily discounted. Buy something that someone will want. Nice AUs are always sought. Also, you may want to look at foreign circulating gold, like British Sovereigns or French 20 Francs. Nice history, beautiful designs and very liquid. And they trade at or just above spot.
     
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  12. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    most people buy gold/ gold bullion for investment, buying specific gold coins
    With an added premium can be risky as allot of times that premium is hard to get
    Back.
     
  13. Mr Roots

    Mr Roots Underneath The Bridge

    ^^^So anything you own such as your silver bar collection it’s easy to get the premium back but if you aren’t “invested” in something it’s hard to get the premium back...That is called a cognitive bias! Pre 33 is just as easy to get the premium back as JM silver bars.

    >>>”That,s an excellent question, from strictly an investment point of view it,s not just
    Generic bullion, so you dont just pay your couple dollars over spot and move on
    Johnson Matthey and Engelhard bars are highly valued both in bright and shiny
    and poured with populations on the lower side of the fence, but any premium that
    you pay will be easily recoverable as the populations again are low and many people
    Collect these, just depends on your individual investing requirements are ?”<<<
     
  14. Don P

    Don P Active Member

    Personally, I know that if I'm out shopping for an expensive gold coin, I always look at the graded gold only because of all the counterfeiting going on and who can you trust on Ebay or even a local coin shop.

    I trust APMEX and large graders, but Ebay dealers.... eh/
     
  15. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    Lately I've been doing just this. I've gotten several pre 34 gold type coins, all slabbed most are MS63 so they are really nice. They have all been very reasonable in price, near the melt price somewhat. It's a lot more fun than buying new bullion in my opinion. :)
     
  16. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I'd go with pre 1933 coins. The history and mintage's don't change. There are of course some tough dates in the $10 Indian set along with a lot of coins to complete the set. I have a complete set of $2.50 Indians. I have the costly 1911-D in strong but I do lack the weak D. It was fairly easy and affordable to assemble. Took about 3 years to complete the set.I just can't find a nice weak D. Happy collecting.
     
  17. Rono

    Rono Senior Member

    Hi Don,

    So many great replies.

    I have always liked collecting coins, partly because of intrinsic value and partly because of history. In addition, from a purely economic perspective, I recognize the base value of gold and silver bullion and see a core holding of bullion - say, 3-10% - as a basic requirement of any decent wealth portfolio.

    I like both gold and silver bullion and if the truth be known, actually own them in a ratio approximating the Gold/Silver Ratio. And it do it all - collect, stack, slabbed, high-end, junk, 90%. feh. It's all good. ;-)

    Collect what you like. I like crowns. I like the different gold and silver crowns of the world. I like their history and their beauty. It's sort of a collection and you can do modern or classic. That said, for quantity, a few tubes of AGE's or ASE's is comforting on cold nights.

    Never, ever, ever, buy cleaned or polished anything. It's like never buying any coins off of TV. I also have started avoiding nice coins that are raw, particularly MS coins. I've only been collecting for a bit over 50 years and have trouble spotting cleaned and doctored coins. I can spot a nice AU coin, however, without too many problems.

    For modern AGE's, you want MS/BU in tubes. I would not buy any modern gold that has been slabbed and carries some sort of premium (e.g. first strike).

    Lastly, always stay with quality and you can't really go wrong. For example, a type set of slabbed Carson City gold coins in AU is about as safe an investment as I can imagine.

    and so it goes,

    peace,

    rono
     
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