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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;chrisild, post: 1810334, member: 39&quot;]This is one of the issues that raise their ugly heads when somebody who has so far been a plain ordinary member is asked and agrees to become a moderator ... And no, my previous comment was not directed at you. See, my perspective is a different one: I live in Germany and the European Union, and we have been discussing this issue on German and European boards for a few years.</p><p><br /></p><p>Long and possibly winding explanation ahead. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> In the EU there are three &quot;levels&quot; of VAT: zero, reduced and full/standard. Currently we have a standard rate of between 15% and 25%. Each member state sets its own rates, but the full rate has to be at least 15 percent.</p><p><br /></p><p>The reduced rate (minimum 5%) is applied in various cases - primarily foods but again, that varies from member state to member state. And when coins are issued or &quot;sold&quot; at face, the zero rate applies - otherwise it would be hard to use them for payments, hehe. Once they are surcharged, VAT applies to the total price.</p><p><br /></p><p>There is a long list of products and services where the reduced and zero rates may be used, including all kinds of &quot;cultural goods&quot;. And yes, the system is somewhat ... chaotic. The point is, Germany has so far been the only member state where the reduced rate is applied to coins. In Austria for example it&#039;s zero for the current copper pieces (€5 and €10 collector coins) when you buy from the mint, 10% for the surcharged silver (€10 and €20) coins, and the regular 20% for bullion pieces such as the Philharmonics coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>Again, I am not exactly happy that in Germany the exemption will now come to an end. But there have been debates about this for roughly ten years. Now why is silver in the focus? Because gold has a special &quot;role&quot; in the EU anyway (no VAT when you buy investment gold), and &quot;PM bugs&quot; care about silver, not about copper, brass or nickel ...</p><p><br /></p><p>The other reason why you mostly read about silver in this context is that silver bars and silver medals have the 19% rate anyway. That is why some major dealers made agreements with the Cook Islands for example which started issuing 1 kg and 5 kg silver bars that have a face value ($30, $150) and are legal tender there. This way they count as coins - and magically the 7% VAT rate applies. As from 1 January the rate is the same no matter whether that 1 kilo bar has a (theoretical ...) face value or not.</p><p><br /></p><p>However, with the exception of investment gold, the 19% rate will now apply to all coins. Which means that, when I buy from a dealer in DE from now on, I pay 19 percent - when I buy from a dealer in another member state, I pay the rate that applies there. Also keep in mind that in the EU the price tag is the end price - as a buyer I don&#039;t have to care about whether the store rent, electricity cost or some tax is already included or not. All I need to know is, what is the price that the seller charges, and (with mail order) how much will shipping be?</p><p><br /></p><p>Now much of this - and now I get back to the first paragraph - is perfectly normal for Europeans. People here may not like this or that tax, but it&#039;s not an &quot;alien&quot; concept. In an American forum or site that is apparently different, as things often end up in debates about how evil taxes are and how this or that party wants to introduce something that is about as bad as what those darn Europeans/socialists (probably synonyms for some in the US) have or plan to do. Similarly, it was difficult to discuss euro coins here, as many contributions were more or less political.</p><p><br /></p><p>In such cases I may stop contributing to a topic. That is not exactly the same as exerting any powers that a moderator formally has here. The fact that I did not stop in this particular case ... ah well, I can always blame you. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Christian - another Coin Talk member[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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