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Message:: [QUOTE="daveydempsey, post: 1296324, member: 29458"]Yeah Yeah it was all done by the USA no other nation had the equipment or ability to carry out this operation, What a load of BS The USA took part in the operation with its NATO allies and others, it did not finance the whole thing and because Gadaffi was killed and his army disbanded the USA did not win. If the US had not taken part the end result would have been the same, as Great Britain and France were about to go it alone.   For a country which takes excessive pride in flags, uniforms, and marching bands and spends more than the rest of the planet combined on its military, the record of America's forces since World War II is depressing. In dozens of quickie invasions against weak opponents, Americans indeed have prevailed, but when faced with tough and determined enemies, they have remarkably often been defeated or stalemated. The failure of America's military could be explained by the notion that failure is only what happens when you seek the wrong success. A poorly-governed people, as Americans certainly are, keeps being sent to wars in which they have no vital interest or commitment. Whatever the reason, the record is unmistakable. It includes Korea,  and Vietnam, where, despite the slaughter of millions, the US left in shame, abandoning desperate associates clinging to helicopter undercarriages. It includes America's smaller-scale but long and vicious war on Cuba. The US was embarrassed by failure time and again, shamefully resorted to the terror tactics it now claims to despise, and wasted immense resources supporting thousands of hangers-on. Fidel Castro outlived two generations of American presidents and over six hundred assassination plots. The record includes the poorly-considered landing of Marines in Lebanon. A base blown up by resisting guerrilla forces, the Marines left with a battleship hurling sixteen-inch shells into the hills, killing who knows how many innocent civilians and having achieved nothing. The other lost war is, of course, Iraq. American efforts there have done little but kill civilians and destroy the economy and now threaten to destroy the country itself. Even in Washington, the reality of civil war When are we going to learn how stupidly unproductive war is? And when is the US going to learn how bad it is at war despite its monstrous expenditures preparing for it? Then we have Afghanistan, you are pulling out of there very soon without any victory, billions spent and thousands killed. Lets just do a count on the USA success in wars on it own. 1. War for Independence--French, Dutch, and Spanish allies. 2. War of 1812--no allies, but no clear victory either. 3. Mexican War--no allies; significant USA victory leading to massive land transfer. 4. Civil War--all American. 5. Spanish-American War--USA joins a pre-existing rebellion against Spanish rule in Cuba and in the Phillipines. 6. World War I--USA joins war relatively late; many Allied nations. 7. World War II--USA joins war relatively late in 1941; numerous Allies. 8. Korean War--USA allied with South Korea. No victory for either side. 9. Viet Nam War--USA allied with South Vietnam. Other allies were South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and a few more. South Korea provided the second largest group of non-Vietnamese soldiers. War ends with defeat of South Viet Nam--no USA victory. So, "How many wars has America fought and how many has it won without foreign help?" I count 1 out of the big 8 foreign wars: the Mexican war. If we count the Civil War, which was not a foreign war, 2.[/QUOTE]

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