Since this was a side thread inside the other one which unfortunately got locked and since @Rich Beale, never answered to my question, I iterate it here. Roma Numismatics Ltd auctioned between 2017-2020 a considerable number of Greek coins (around 400), under the provenance "From the collection of an antiquarian, Bavaria c. 1960s-1990s". So I am asking if @Rich Beale can provide an example of the passing of any of these coins from an auction or FPL in the years 1960-1990. Or an invoice from these years. We are now living in a time where the stakeholders have been pushed to buy provenances for a big premium to ensure that their collection remains legal. So unless something tangible exists, the cited provenance has as much value in a court as someone saying the coins were dropped in their garden from zergs coming from Alpha Centauri.
I am not certain, but I seem to remember someone on this forum saying that this provenance refers to the personal holdings of Hermann Lanz that he has been selling off for a couple of decades now - whether or not that person intended to imply that they were from his collection or simply from material that he was handling outside of his business, I also do not know. I do not know if this was an authority or not, simply a recollection.
I already answered you in the previous thread, perhaps you didn’t see, or perhaps you’re enjoying stirring the pot. copied below: Firstly, if you’re trying to suggest that these coins had any connection to Lanz, well they didn’t - go bark up another tree. Munich is one of the oldest numismatic hubs in Europe, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of the trade there will have some understanding of just how many old collections reside there. Secondly, since the coins from that collection are incontrovertibly authentic I don’t see what point you’re trying to make. Thirdly, your implication that the coins lack provenance is a dull refrain. A good many old collections come to us completely lacking in provenance, simply because the owner bought from dealers not auctions, did not keep records or tickets, or because intermediaries discarded the information. See, for example the Eucharius Collection, the Mkaelay-Tigray Collection (only later discovered to be that of a well-known numismatist), the Vitangelo Collection, the Z.P. Collection. The list goes on. In fact the first collection I ever handled, acquired via a well known German auction house, contained 1200 coins including a magnificent jugate portrait denarius of Postumus - all 1200 with no provenance information preserved. (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/lanz-and-roma.377432/page-4)
In essence you are not responding if there is any actual proof for the provenance going back to 1960-1990. I invite anyone interested to just go to acsearch and type "antiquarian bavaria" and make their own conclusions on the basis of the types included and the toning of the coins.
I think I have answered you clearly. If you are another one of the people trying to suggest that Roma Numismatics Ltd is in any way involved with Lanz Numismatik other than that we auctioned the collection of the owner’s father, then you are incorrect. There is no relationship between Lanz and Roma Numismatics, and other than the Celtic coin collection of Hermann Lanz we have not had a single coin consigned by Hubert Lanz. If you’re trying to suggest that the coins do not all belong to the same one owner, you are also incorrect. If you’re trying to suggest the coins do not have a lawful provenance, you are also incorrect. I’m not sure why you feel that you are entitled to any more information than what the consignor and/or we have chosen to publish, because quite simply you aren’t. I’m done here.
I only asked if there any proof of the claimed 1960-1990 provenance and got an answer that I am not entitled to have one. On the other hand I see that you are not mentioning the provenance of coins in your current auction. Like lot 213 the centaur from kyzikos and lot 193 from Tenedos which come from Papillon Numismatic. Whom I am sure is a famous numismatist and provided adequate references so that @acsearch.info gave him access to hold auctions in biddr.
There is a lot of misinformation and fear mongering being circulated by some concerning the legal acquisition and legal ownership of certain coin types. Not to mention some actually suggesting "coins already in your possession" are somehow not legal. Likewise, some prominent institutions, now collaborating with restrictive government regulations (for their own self-interest), are not helping the situation nor advocating for collectors. The entire ancient coin collecting community needs to get on the same page. Millions and millions of extant ancient Greek, Roman, Persian, Indo-Greek, Byzantine, Asia Minor, Asian, North African, Spanish, etc, etc and Medieval coins are unprovenanced and likely may never be. Many reputable and experienced Dealers can help you determine how to legally acquired, legally import and legally owned using a variety of legal means and legal methods. Some may choose not to be helpful (their right), and yes, some are finding it a way to boost profits. However, there are many reputable and experienced Dealers in the States that can help to acquire unprovenanced coins, based on a review of your interest and the specific coins themselves, perhaps with a small premium.
