Lanz and Roma

It seems these coins from him were being sold from the first time. Roma did not list any other provenances. I believe Auction XVII from Roma is the same (you can even see it advertised on Lanz's website: https://www.lanz.com/)

 

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Some members in other threads here have posted about Lanz and Roma working together, or something to that effect. Not just once, if I recall correctly.

To me the most important thing is whether Roma or Lanz is deliberately selling fakes. Lanz, certainly fakes have been sold by them. Deliberately or not, I think that's harder to tell.

That Roma sells coins that passed through Lanz (I'm assuming that's the point raised) does not seem to be an issue unless the coins are fake, and Roma is helping to move them, deliberately selling fakes.

I mean what's the alternative? I can understand if one decides not to support Lanz in any way by refusing to buy any of their offerings. But are all coins handled by Lanz to be taken out of circulation? Even the genuine ones?

 

This is some next level QAnon nonsense right here. Roma Numismatics Ltd auctioned the Hermann Lanz collection - a well published and well provenanced assemblage of Celtic coins that belonged to the respected father of Hubert Lanz. Some sad miscreants are taking this to imply a presumed conspiracy. Do yourselves a favour. Grow a brain, grow up, focus on the coins, and take your conspiracy theories back to politics.

 

You auctioned around 500 coins over the past 4 years citing as provenance "From the collection of an antiquarian, Bavaria c. 1960s-1990s". Could you please provide an example of an auction record or a fixed price list between 1960-1990 for one of these coins?

 

Firstly, if you’re trying to suggest that these coins had any connection to Lanz, well they didn’t - go bark up another tree. Munich is one of the oldest numismatic hubs in Europe, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of the trade there will have some understanding of just how many old collections reside there.

Secondly, since the coins from that collection are incontrovertibly authentic I don’t see what point you’re trying to make.

Thirdly, your implication that the coins lack provenance is a dull refrain. A good many old collections come to us completely lacking in provenance, simply because the owner bought from dealers not auctions, did not keep records or tickets, or because intermediaries discarded the information. See, for example the Eucharius Collection, the Mkaelay-Tigray Collection (only later discovered to be that of a well-known numismatist), the Vitangelo Collection, the Z.P. Collection. The list goes on. In fact the first collection I ever handled, acquired via a well known German auction house, contained 1200 coins including a magnificent jugate portrait denarius of Postumus - all 1200 with no provenance information preserved.

 

I think you should take a deep breath, and consider that you are on a public discussion board, not inside the lobby of Roma Numismatics. People are allowed to have an opinion or a belief that you don’t like here, and to express that opinion. Calling them stupid because you disagree is not making the discussion better; it’s making it worse.
You tell us to focus on the coins. I’m sure it’s the dream of any business person that the customers never ask any questions about the merchandize, but just buy them. Now that would be stupid, given that we live in a world where child labour, fraud, pollution, etc. excist. Consumers (and collectors) should consider what kind of businesses they help stay alive, and not only focus on their personal gratification.
To your credit, most people here like to do business with Roma, and they have expressed their support in this thread. I would say that they did Roma more of a favour with their post than you did with your condescending tirade.

Cointalk has moderators that step in if people are out of line. They usually do so without calling them stupid or childish. It is very unusual on discussion boards to have the people making a living out of the hobby being discussed, telling the participants what opinions and ideas that are ok to talk about.

 

You might feel differently if it was you, and the last ten years of your life that people were trying to throw shade on by positing or repeating defamatory lies. It's easy to forget from the comfort of an armchair and safe behind an anonymous discussion board alias that a seemingly faceless and far-off company which for some it seems reasonable to invent malicious rumours about is in fact the product of a real person's proverbial blood, sweat and tears. And yes, while it may very well be unusual, I am telling you in no uncertain terms that it is not OK to think that Roma Numismatics Ltd 'colludes' with Lanz, or anyone else for that matter, to sell fakes.

 

I know how this feels, as my profession (child social security) gets 90% negative press, and there are quite a few discussion boards where people are accusing us of being psychopaths that sell children, and that foster care is a money racket, and so on so on. We work our butts off, we’re being subject to violence, threats and constantly being devalued.
When people accuse us of these things, I really, really want to punch them very hard in the face. I’d really like to break their nose.

Then I take a deep breath.

 

The vast majority of people in this thread have vigorously defended you and your reputation. You shouldn't let a couple of people who don't even know that there was a father Lanz get to you. Nobody has accused you of eating babies yet.

 

To be fair, one has to admit that certain serious allegations have been made here. I'm not approving the words used, but it does seem that there is another side of the story to it so I can imagine the frustration.
It's okay for anyone to ask questions, but I can imagine that going from questions to allegations on a public board is a small step for someone posting a message, but a whole other thing for the person, dealer, or company on the receiving end. Especially if more information can shine a different light on the matter.
It's not my style to ask questions like these in a public way, like this. It 's a grey are maybe (asking for experiences is a different matter I think), but remember, Google remembers everything and what one says on a public board can be damaging to a person, dealer, or company.

 

I have complete confidence and trust in Roma. In the one case I recall where a coin was questioned, it was promptly withdrawn. Their lots are consistently as advertised and timely shipped upon payment. I have never had reason to believe there were any bidding shenanigans going on. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, but Roma is a top tier firm which operates honestly.

Lanz is a bit more complicated. Once a top level firm, their reputation has suffered in recent years. I still buy from them, but use caution and exercise judgement.

Their are few firms I would black ball, but many you should use extreme caution on. If you can’t tell which is which and don’t feel your knowledge level is sufficient, then you should steer clear of highly problematic dealers and venues, e.g. eBay.

 

I agree, and posts that go to far should be deleted. At the same time, we (collectors) can’t be naive. There are some problematic sides of our hobby, and I don’t think it’s up to the dealers to tell us what we should discuss. There are ways that we can discuss things and ways we can’t, though. I trust that the mods monitor a discussion like this, and provide the necessary guidelines .

I think there should be different expectations to how a hobby person and how a professional person conduct themselves, though. If a professional who never posts here to participate on the board, help newbies with good advice, and never treat the people here like individuals, come in and tell people that they are stupid because they have questions about the business of the professional, I consider this to be un-professional. Not only that, it increases the level of uncertainity about the business itself. Why would I buy from someone who tells people to grow a brain if a question is raised? How will that person act if I end up in a dispute over a coin?
As the only participation that I have noticed from some of the dealers that occasionally post on this board have been in 100% self-interest, I hope that this does not go unnoticed.

As stated earlier, I can relate to the frustration. This is a frustration that professionals have to deal with. There are actually more challenging professions in this world than being a coin dealer, believe it or not.

 

@Rich Beale, i am still waiting for an apology & an explanation for my shocking treatment from your company.

Being lied to is not a nice thing, maybe using the Photographer to deal with customer service issues was a bad move.

Interesting how you now come to defend yourself against false claims but refuse to acknowledge pure incompetence from your staff

Once bitten, Twice shy.

You are very lucky that i am unable to come and see you in person, watching edited squirm is a very funny experience.

 

I have no idea who you are but you sound like a really charming individual. I can’t possibly imagine why you haven’t received an apology for your imagined slights.

 

I am more than happy to share my e.mails with the community if you like.

I tell no lies, unlike your employees.

The story has already been told & you were tagged in it, plus i contacted you via PM and had a conversation with you.
Enough to jolt your memory ?

Maybe you should ask edit about it.