Fireproof safe

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Comixbooks, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Active Member

    So if I had a fire in my house would the Bullion melt if the safe wasn't fire proof.
    I seen a Gun safe picture on the net that chared all the guns inside due to the wildfire that set them on fire which kinda defeats the purpose of the safe. So maybe the 2x2 holders would melt and the silver would remain intact?
     
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  3. ken454

    ken454 Well-Known Member

    the guns were not stolen so the safe worked, safes without fire ratings are for theft security only..
     
  4. techwriter

    techwriter Well-Known Member

    I agree with Ken454. If the safe isn't fireproof then what good is it if flammable
    items are kept inside? Well, silver melts at 1763 degrees Farenheit but why take the chance? and paper money can be just ashes.
     
    tommyc03 likes this.
  5. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    It all depends upon the fire rating of the safe and time elapsed. Some fire rated safes can be rated as low as 350 degrees which is nothing. Others are rated at 1,200 degrees. Now you have to consider the cost. The higher the rating, the more you have to invest. And consider the response time of your fire dept. And the higher the rating means more insulation in the safe which means added weight. A lot of things need to be considered before buying any kind of safe.
     
  6. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    Fire ratings on Residential Security Containers (safes) are subjective - and to some extent not even verified by an objective 3rd party with certain fly-by-night companies. I studied this a lot last year before we bought one for our business. This is one place where quality really counts -if only once in your life (hopefully never - if you're lucky)

    Be careful when they only use "time" as the deciding factor. You need to look at time/temperature and the resistance inside the safe - i.e. what the safe will show inside.

    Most say fire rated xx minutes at yyyy temperature (i.e. 30min at 1200 degrees)

    That is a key deciding factor. The average house fire is stated at 1100 degrees. So if a safe is rated 30min at 1200 - you may get 35min at 1100 - assuming your fire is "average" and beyond that, everything else in the safe will eventually come up to the temperature of the fire.

    The measurement threshold is actually 350 degrees internal temperature - which by the way is still hot enough to bake a cake!

    The temp is set outside (say 1200 degrees) and then the time is measured until the internal temp inside the safe hits 350 degrees.

    It may not melt, but it will get soft, and if it falls or gets hit while hot, it will get charred, scarred and damaged. Currency can be destroyed at much lower temperatures. Consider this if storing currency/cash.

    Consider what your house is made of - especially where the safe will sit. Think about how long it will take for the fire department to arrive and put out the fire (if you live in the sticks, you will need a much longer rating).

    Think about where your safe is located as well. If it's in the middle of the house with no access, it may take a while for the fire fighters to get to it - assuming they even can.

    Enough cannot be said to build a safety buffer. It's better to have too much protection than not enough.

    Think strategically when placing the safe. Easy access for you = easy access for thieves - but also for fire fighters.

    If it's in the garage, expect hotter temps. Car fuel, cans of combustibles, lots of fuel and air flow = hot fire.

    You can find "cheap safes" all over. Costco has some good prices on average quality - but they are not top end. The best seller is the "Bighorn" which delivers 30min @ 1200 degrees for $599.00

    In my book a minimum of 90min is required. By the time there is a fire, a call is made, people get on site and actually start putting water on it to cool the area - it could be a while.

    And for cryin' out loud - BOLT IT DOWN!!!!!!! Otherwise anyone with the ability to move a fridge can get that thing out in minutes. So many stories of "well we didn't bolt it down" and someone came in with a big dolly.

    I hope this helps!
     
  7. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Active Member

    Cool thanks for the info!
     
  8. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    I've been spooked by the reports of Sentry safes not being coin friendly because of humidity. Can some of you suggest brands that would provide fire -- as well as theft protection that are coin friendly?

    Thanks!
     
  9. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Active Member

    I read you are suppose to air the safe out once a month..I read plus have a moisture package

    I wouldn't use the basement
     
  10. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    The first thing I'd suggest is consider the value of what you are protecting, the size, and where you intend to place the safe. This should determine the budget. If you have a few hundred dollars worth of coins, it doesn't make sense to spend $1k on a good safe. If you intend to fill it with $100k of goods, you should consider something much better - you are protecting your investment. You will probably also want to involve your insurance agent.

    Next, consider the fireproof requirements. Ironically the better protected against fire - the more it can trap humidity (it's a design/function of the seals).

    Remember the formula of temperature @ time (i.e. 1350 degrees at 30min vs 1800 degrees @ 30min is a huge margin of safety). If you are storing delicate paper documents (notes?) then you want more fire protection. If you are storing circulated coins, you will get by with less protection.

    Remember that if you are having someone else install it - you want to go with a reputable local company. After all, they will know what make/model and how it was installed. You don't want this information (or any info about your safe) getting out.

    Delivery and installation costs should be considered. Generally a couple hundred bucks.

    One more thing... Everyone wants electronic locks. I recommend against them. At some point, electronics fail. Battery replacement, code clearing, etc... All problems. This is not an "immediate access" safe - generally. If you store a firearm for home safety, it should be in a quick-access location - consider children, and your liability.

    The one thing I will tell you is that I will never own a safe with an electronic lock.

    This may provide some enlightenment

     
    lucyray likes this.
  11. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Are gun safes a good place to store coins and other valuables ?

    We moved one into my uncles home like 15 years ago and I remember it took like 5 of us to move it. Weighed close to 600 pounds so even 2 or 3 big guys can NOT easily move it out. Most home safes are little things weighing maybe 50 pounds.

    I was thinking of getting one. That assumes my apartment floors can withstand the weight. :D
     
  12. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    Ours weighs much more than that - and two average size guys were able to get it moved around the office as if it weighed nothing. Right equipment for the job enables this.

    If it isn't bolted through the floor on a slab, it's just a big box waiting for transport. Even a wood floor requires them to cut it out or break it out.

    All those stories you hear about people hooking up trucks and dragging ATM's down the street? It happens. An unbolted safe in the garage is a prime target for smash and grab.

    Be "safe" with your safe.
     
  13. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Figured an upstairs safe....with guys needing to bring in equipment....and then it taking a few minutes to move it to the street or out of the apt./lobby...is a deterrent.

    Certainly much harder than lifting out my 30-40 pound mini-safe that I have now ! :D

    My point is unless someone KNOWS I have a safe and prepares, 2 guys or even 3 breaking in cannot easily and quickly move 500-600 pounds. Me and my cousins couldn't !:D
     
  14. Speedbump

    Speedbump Not a New Member

    What is the construction type of your apartment building?

    Placing heavy safes upstairs is not recommended unless you have concrete or some other substantially constructed floors. Wood or steel framed buildings are not usually meant to carry that amount of live load per square foot. You can end up with damaged ceilings on the floor below. If you know you have a bearing wall below the floor area where the safe is going, that might be OK. Some also say you can get away with locating it along an exterior bearing wall. These options are not always absolute however.

    Also, just because its heavy doesn’t mean it provides good security. Many fire resistive gun safes only offer thin gauge steel linings that can be cut through easily. The fire resistive material itself is often just drywall. A modestly sized gun safe that uses thicker steel and a cementitious fire proofing can weigh 1,000lbs or more depending on the size.
     
  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I'm really not sure to be honest. I live in a 1970's constructed building. I would check with the engineers or building manager to make sure 500 pounds or so was OK. Wouldn't want the safe to crash down to the people below me. :D

    Thanks for the info. I'll do research before I move on this.
     
  16. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    Safer bet (pun intended) might be a safe deposit box. Of course there is good and bad with someone else holding your goodies.

    Looks like the best solution these days is to hide it in an iphone :)
     
  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    NO WAY I want a bank to hold my bullion disaster stuff or numismatics. Defeats the whole purpose.
     
    Brett_in_Sacto likes this.
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