Euro's Loss = Gold's Gain?

I places like Senegal children and adults mine for gold to pay for food (more due to poverty than due to hyperinflation)...

 

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When they had gotten to the point where they were printing 100 Trillion $ notes, it was the ones who had converted their currency to gold Krugerrands who protected their wealth. When the Zimbabwean $ collapsed, anyone with any paper asset denominated in it, had nothing.

Nobody uses gold to buy food in a stabilized economy. It's a false argument. Gold is simply too valuable for that. It's used for protecting accumulated wealth from the very events that took place in Zimbabwe. This was even thru in the USA for the 135 years we were on the gold standard. Gold coins were savings vehicles, people conducted daily commerce with pennies, dimes quarters and more rarely 1/2 and silver dollars.

 

You should not be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you will "get it" one day.

 

The general media that knows little about the PM's calls it a bubble, and since May they have explained the selloff as the Euro coming down. For waht it worth, if you look at a chart of the Euro for the last 8 years, it has traded between 1.25 and 1.30 each year, and is essentiallyunchanged over 8 years,Silver was 5-6 bucks when it all started and gold was 450. As for Europe being fixed it never will be. We in the states have never recovered from the meltdown of 2008. Just my thoughts, but with yiels of government paper at all time lows in the G8, or at least US, Japan, Canada, Switzerland, Sweden,and a few others, and no growth, the econmic stimulus in Europe will be in the tens of trillions of dollars by the time it is all said and done. The only people buying German and US paper are the algos, (algorithmic trading machines.) Why would one buy bonds yielding next o nothing to get paid in a currency which will only devalue more. Many on wall st are waiting for the fed to announce QE 3, they will most likely never do it, as the algos have already gotten the rated so low. Europe on the other hand need almost 2 trillion euro for Greece, Spain is signifcantly bigger, and Italys bond market is huge. ECB will give in and do multiple forms of stimulus, qe or both. There have alsobeen huge upside call buyers on the comex goldcontract and the gld etf, close to 100 million ounces of upside call premium has been purchased in the past week. also on chart formations, gold at 1525-1545 has been a very friendly buy over the past year as you have made 100.00 or close to within 7 days. As for the other PM's Silver is money too, we all knowit is really the currecny used by every major ****ry only 40 years ago. Silver traded 26.80 right after the comex close on thursday afternoon as a fund blew out. It looked like a marked bottom, ans Silver shoul get back to it normal range within 2 weeks saybetween 30-34. Later this year people will use ther gold profits to buy Silver and Platinum. One other not regarding Platinum, it was Platinum week in South Africa, and Inplats,Rustenburg mine is experiencing strikes and violence again and may have supply shut i. Platinum and Silver are proabaly two of the least expensive low risk hgih reward trade, sorry for the run on, those are just my thoughts....................Stay strong, Stay Long Silver.........Qsilver007

 

It doesn't bother me at all if you financially destroy yourself. I know the game you are playing, but some younger investors here might not. I don't want them to get hurt by taking you seriously.

 

Considering that close to 100% of your posts here are to offer up nothing but your opinion on what others have posted and that you rarely if ever start any topics here on your own about bullion investing, then this seems like a very curious statement. A statement where words don't match your actions.

If you indeed you know "the game that I'm playing", then why are you bothering to participate in a topic I started. If you truly care about these "younger investors" that you speak of and really wish to help them, then why haven't you started any topics here where you do just that? Of course the easy answer to this is that your words don't match your actions.

 

Hmm.. same reason I warn people about investing in IOU's.

The Exter Inverted Pyramid:
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/05.09/images/pyramid.jpg

 

Isn't fiat currency, by definition, an IOU?

 

Yeah, but I'm not really sure what it owes since it isn't gold anymore, and everything else owes fiat currency. Funny how that works.

 

Well, baseline the IOU is the ONLY thing the government will accept for tax payments. If you have a bill from the IRS, (and we all do), there is no acceptable payment save USD.

The second legally proscribed use is in settlement of debt. If you owe money, a lender legally cannot force you to pay in anything other than USD.

Other than that, there has never been any other backing of FRN's except as debt collectible from the Fed Reserve. It seems to have been enough for them to be used as currency for about a century now.

 

You are correct that I rarely start a topic on bullion investing anymore. That seemed more sensible when gold was at 1/4th of the present price level. Since I hesitate to recommend new investments in PMs at current levels, my actions are totally consistent with my views. So unless it is forbidden by the rules of the forum, I will post replies whenever I want within the rules of CoinTalk.

 

It is allowed, in fact judging by complaint tickets, IMO, most seem to wish that there be more thought in beginning new threads than just what ever pops into one's mind,

 

I never made a statement on where you could or could not post. I was making a statement on your self appointed role as "protector" of new investors from posts/forumers which you disagree with. I've said before that if you stick to the facts, rather than focus on the motivations of other formers, the truth will sort itself out.

 

I agree. So I'll continue to call you out whenever you make up stories about financial conspiracies, imminent currency collaspe, stock market rigging, and only gold will save you. I know you are just making this stuff up for the fun of it, and you know you are. But there might be some investors just getting started with their investment life, and you think nothing of recommending strategies that will prevent them from being successful, just because you think it is fun.

 

I agree except that FRN's were an IOU for gold up until 1971. Today they are an IOU for debt I suppose. Again, funny how that works

 

Whether or not Fatima is making anything up, what he says has no bearing on the evidence that has been provided by GATA, Ted Butler, Andrew Maguire, and others. Everyone should do their own due diligence and not take his word, your word, or my word for it. We all have our own agendas for various reasons most likely. I will openly state that mine is to help others avoid wealth confiscation from inflation in the manner with which has the least risk of being raided by financial terrorists. This does nothing to help against home invasion, but that is the less likely source of thievery in my opinion considering the MF Global situation and the risk associated with the derivatives market. As this is only my opinion it may very well be incorrect, but even if it is incorrect the one thing you do have in that case is the ability to defend your property, and to stand in the way of theft if you so choose, forcing those who would take your wealth to do it to your face. I do have selfish motives for this, as I do not want to have to give up my resources to support other people if I don't have to, but would feel obligated to do so if the need was placed before me.

 

I agree. But I would also point out that GATA has complained about gold manipulation since it was $250, and Butler has complained about silver manipulation since it was $4. The market has proven them wrong, or at least proved that their fears were highly exaggerated. I know they can't admit that because they have businesses and staffs and newsletters to run, and revenue can only come from the true believers. I agree with your goal of helping others avoid wealth confiscation from inflation. It's a big problem. PMs are a great tool for this, but not all of the time. They run in bull and bear markets like everything else, and the time will come when holding PMs becomes dangerous to financial health, and no amount of faith in PMs will change that. PMs have been in a long bull market, and like all long term bull markets, people start thinking up reasons why this time it's different and the bull will run forever. But it won't. And I think that deep down inside most people know it.

 

Cloud, not to be intentionally difficult, but I don't see any logical reasoning to support why the market has proven them wrong. The reasons they got involved had nothing to do with price, and everything to do with following the trail of "whys". You may very well be right about them not changing their minds since they've built their financial sustainability around the concepts that were once proven (and have yet to be reaffirmed in more recent days, but IMO are not disproven either), but that doesn't impact the reasons why they started doing what they are doing which are still even just as true today as they were back then.

http://www.investmentrarities.com/ted_butler_comentary03-09-12.shtml

This short position has passed around different institutions, but currently is held by JP Morgan since absorbing it from Bear Sterns in 2008. There is no evidence I am aware of that this is naked shorting. It may very well be valid, but based on the dwindling amount of silver in the COMEX vaults (which incidentally received a nice boost when MF Global customers had their metal stolen, $1.2 billion of which went to JPM) I have to wonder where else they have the silver inventory to hedge this massive short position. If his fears were exaggerated, why did they have to steal from customers to keep their vaults filled?

 

I like silver and I am invested in it since 2004 as a result of some research and because it was just emerging from a 24 year bear market. I've read a lot of Butler's articles. Where I differ with him is his idea that silver prices are supressed by bankers manipulating the market through shorting futures. If they are manipulating it lower, they are doing a fairly bad job. I don't know why anybody would think that COMEX is the primary silver depository anymore. Central Fund of Canada doesn't use it, and most likely neither do a lot of other investors who stockpile silver for industrial or investment purposes. The government of Chia is rumored to be perhaps the largest owner of silver [and by the way, I believe they are a client of JPM but I no longer have a source for this information so take it as rumor]. Butler is waiting for the "manipulation" [i.e., shorting] to end, and if that is the case it seems likely that he will never publish a sell signal on silver regardless of the price action. That's my problem with his analysis. When you talk about JPM stealing $1.2B of metal as if it was fact, it just adds fuel to the conspiracy fire and prevents a cool-headed analysis of the silver market. I don't find that sort of thinking as useful to an investor.

 

I mostly agree with you. Regarding the $1.2 it is a fact that JPM received that much from MF Global when their customer funds went missing, and it is a fact that the COMEX silver inventories also increased around that same time. To say JPM stole this metal, well that is an inference. Maybe Corzine just handed it over, or maybe it wasn't metal but rather just paper assets. I don't know those details, but they do coincide to a degree.