Cyprus bailout = money shift to tangible assets (gold, silver, etc...)

Which wouldn't have been such a bad investment had Goldman Sachs not drowned Greece in toxic debt.

Portugal has already said what everybody is thinking (and quickly recanted), that this will set the precedent going forward. Obviously the PIIGS are not going to meet their obligations, and restructuring over and over will only suffice for so long.

 

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Really? A country that has had a long history of overspending, devaluing their currency, and abused social programs, (aren't like more than a quarter of all people in Greece work for the government?), and you are blaming the bank?

I suppose you blame McDonalds for making people fat too. No one forced them to take money, in fact I am pretty darn sure the Greek government was actively SEEKING to borrow more. Remember that whole Olympics fiasco?

 

Hmm, not quite the same. http://www.spiegel.de/international...ed-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html (text in English).

Christian

 

Why are THE PEOPLE (majority) forced to accept austerity when it was banksters (extreme minority) who profited handsomely from all this rotten Paper?
I favor The (Inevitable) Jubilee; longer we delay it, the worse it will be.

On topic: I cannot find ANY evidence of a PM run in Cyprus, but feel free to call these coin dealers & report back: http://www.oncyprus.com/en/dir/cyprus_coin_dealers.html

Did everyone see this news of the BitCoin ATM in Cyprus (idea/plan?) http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/26/bitcoin-atm-could-be-opened-in-cyprus

 

Two weeks and counting. Maybe open Thursday?

AP: A man passes a sprayed entrance of a store that buys gold which reads (in Greek) "thieves" in capital Nicosia, Cyprus, Monday, March 25, 2013.



This Maltese article points to the utility of a functioning debit card!
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20130326/local/Fear-on-streets-of-Cyprus.463012

 

Still, they "snapped them up". The greeks knew what they were buying, same as someone biggie sizing a double quarter pounder meal. In both cases its the consumers fault in my eyes.

 

Yes, really. Maybe you should look into the details. I realize it may sting to call out your boys like that, but it is what it is. Sure it's not ALL their fault, but they certainly put Greece 4 feet under instead of 2.

Most all governments are up to their eyeballs in debt, and most all governments are actively seeking to borrow more, but not all governments are receiving toxicity. Sure, a lot of them are, Greece is no exception, but they still got @'d over.

 

In situations such as this all bets are off nothing is safe including PMs for example the government can seize all gold/silver assets or tax the heck out of it.

 

First, they aren't MY BOYS. I do not own any stock in that company, nor am I an investment banker. You saying that is inferring I have some kind of invested interest in the subject that I am not disclosing to the board. I don't, so I kind of resent that.

Second, there are literally millions of derivatizes and similar products that can be bought. You know what? Every single one of them have a LEGITIMATE PURPOSE. Yes, in this instance the politicians may have bought them for the wrong reason, but how is that not the politicians fault? How are we not holding THEM to blame here? It is the EXACT SAME logic as blaming McDonald's for being fat, or blaming the manufacturer of a 12 gauge shotgun for some idiot shooting someone, or the maker of a kitchen knife for someone chopping their finger off, etc etc.

All of these financial instruments CAN have a proper purpose. If a politician KNOWINGLY bought them to defraud the intent of the European regulatory agency, why is that politician not in jail right now? Blame the perpetrator of the crime, not a manufacturer of a product that can be used properly.

Having said that, OTOH I am completely against bank bailouts like this. Banks need to be allowed to fail, however spectacularly. The government if they issue deposit insurance of course needs to be involved because of the insurance, but bank bailouts are the worst thing we can do. If a company is not afraid of failing, if every worker is not afraid of losing their job if they are not prudent in their decisions, you get these catastrophic events like we have seen in the last 5 year.

So, in short, let the banks fail if they take bad risks, but they are not to blame for politicians trying to lie and steal to stay elected IMHO.

Chris

 

You have left out one key element in the chain of culpability -- the regulators. And I would certainly disagree with this:

"Every single one of them have a LEGITIMATE PURPOSE."

Some were worthless the day they were sold, and the seller knew it. Worse, some had open-ended liability that was not apparent, and the sellers simply LIED, as well as cooking the books, while the regulators went along with the scam by not taking action.

​

 

I'd be willing to bet at this time someone in Cyprus with a pocket full of Euros could stock-up on physical PMs at significant discounts.

 

Maybe, especially now that a couple of banks have reduced their daily ATM limits to 100-120 Euros. Cash might very well be in high demand.

 

Every single one of them I have looked at sir have a legitimate purpose. The product itself is legitimate if purchased and used in a certain manner. Now, I do not think Cyprus bought these products to properly offset other risks, so the way and reason they bought them was improper, but if a firm had an existing risk they wished to mitigate, these products COULD have been a proper purchase. If used improperly of course they can be bad purchases. I base this on my educational background in Finance, specifically derivatives.

Its a lot like someone buying a knife. Maybe they need to chop vegetables and cook the family meal, or maybe they are going to stab their husband. One use is a proper use, the other an improper one. Is the knife manufacturer to blame for the improper use?

My view is the government were presented with these products, and they knew the risks and costs, but bought them anyway to be able to keep spending what they wanted to spend today. The regulators in that country are also at fault of course, since they didn't stop them. That is the extent of the blame to me. The government were informed consumers, I do not think they were lied to, I believe they knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and did it simply as a political expediency to "keep the good times rolling".

I see the same today in the US. Many CA school districts are borrowing billions to build schools, but will not pay a penny on these bonds for 30 years. By this time the costs will be 4-5 times the cost today. Who is to blame for this? I blame the school officials and regulators for doing it and allowing it to happen. I am not blaming the people buying these bonds.

 

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You may be correct! I don't know, but 'the black market PM rate' in Cyprus would be an interesting stat to track in the duration of the crisis. (The chart may be structurally telling.)

I'd categorize this like 'retail petrol prices in Misrata' during the seige. I remember reading about a LOCAL petrol price-spike, from 'pennies to Dollars' per litre. Never saw a chart, though.

5/7/2011: NY Times 'Libya Strikes Fuel Supply in City Held by Rebels'
>>Misurata has been cut off from new sources of fuel since the uprising against the Qaddafi government began in February. But it began the siege with large reservoirs of diesel fuel and gasoline, and so far there have not been shortages. Several other fuel tanks remained intact, and terminal officials said the rebels’ de facto government would not disclose which tanks were full and which were not, nor would they make any public statements about how much fuel remained in the city. “The exact information is a secret,” Mr. Bazina said. He was willing to characterize the situation only in general terms. “We do have fuel,” he said. “But we do not have enough.” For weeks, the lines at the few gas stations in the city have often stretched to hundreds of cars. But residents and officials have said the lines are caused in part by the small number of stations, which are often closed — not to any shortage of gasoline. Gas prices have remained low, indicating sufficient supply. Supplies of pressurized cooking fuel, however, recently ran out.<<

Surely, the Libyan local price data is 'out there.' Here's a chart of the Libyan natural gas export to Italy (for example):




The Cypriot Au Price, charted, could be informative likewise: Crisis Gold Price.

 

Sounds like a Fascist Gov't to me!

 

The Templar Knights used to be based in Cyprus and were very successful till the King of France had them labeled (libeled?) as money changers........

 

Cyprus is causing the BTC to go parabolic?

 

Good catch! That BitCoin chart is (I think) what the Investor's Death Spike in Gold will one day (in the future) look like.

I will add more BitCoin links on my BitCoin thread, but 'Cyprus' (bank holidays) is definitely a key element now!

 

Part of the benefit of gold and silver is that they can be used off the grid. They can only be taxed insomuch as the people using them are willing to disclose their activities. So strike that.

As far as seizure that's not very realistic. They don't have the manpower to go to everybody's door. Even if they had a list of who to go after that would still rely on people being there and keeping their metal somewhere easliy discovered and retrieved. Sure they could seize the paper, but that's not worth anything in the long run anyway. I don't doubt that would happen once the Cyprus seizure model is in full effect.

When it comes to tyrants, nothing is safer than metals. You just have to contend with everybody else who may want to rob you so there is obviously a trade off.

 

The Cypriot Haircut



http://www.cnbc.com/id/100604210

Looks like anyone investing more than 100,000 Euros in the Bank of Cyprus (aka "The Russians") could be in for "up to" a 60% "haircut". :just-sign: