Coin Maintenance

I found a bottle of VERDI-CARE in my stocking this past Christmas. Not sure if I should use it or how. Do any of you have a suggestion or experience using it? What type of coins should I use it on?.....or shouldn't I use it? What should I expect the VC to do to the coin? Clean, Preserve, Protect, Conservation, etc...? Thanks!

 

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http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-Instructions.pdf

It's for conserving copper, especially when there are minor spots of verdigris. You can use it for other stuff too, I guess, but other uses are not popular.

 

Thanks, @Jaelus
Can anyone else comment? I have some problems with the directions and do not think to OP's question has been answered satisfactorily yet. Just curious...

DIRECTIONS FOR SPOT TREATING:
NOTE: Recommended for minimum product use and direct spot treatment.
1) Place a small drop of product on the tip of a wooden implement such as a toothpick. DO NOT USE PLASTIC TO HELP AVOID SCRATCHING. Carefully touch the moistened tip to the spot being treated forming a dome over the area. Allow the area to soak from 1 to 10 minutes (do not let product evaporate).OR what will happen? Anyone here know?
2) While still wet, work the residue using a gentle up and down tapping motion until the desired results are obtained. Rubbing can be more effective but take care not to physically rub-off underlying patina! Less physical action is better to reduce the risk of damaging the surface.
3) SEE DRYING BELOW
NOTE: VERDI-CARE™ will not remove black carbon spots, etched finger prints or other permanent organic deposits due to its gentle nature. It is designed to leave the coin patina and natural, original imperfections intact. It will only remove loosely adhered surface debris and light to moderate verdigris. Like acetone which is MUCH cheaper?

DIRECTIONS FOR USE AS A DEBRIS REMOVER (RECOMMENDED METHOD FOR CIRCULATED COINS):
NOTE: If the coin is coated with oil or another substance, it should be removed prior to conservation with VERDI-CARE™. Please check the FAQ document for more important
information.
1) Place a small, circular amount of product just larger than the size of the coin on a coin-safe, non-abrasive, soft cloth (a high quality micro fiber towel such as the VERDITOWEL ™ works well). (?) Anyone know for sure? Grasp the coin by the rim and rotate the coin in a clockwise and counter-clockwise twisting motion against the soaked surface until the desired results are obtained and the entire coin surface is covered in product and in all the fresh scratches you just put on your coin from moving the debris (trapped in the rag) all around the surface in a circular motion!. Make sure the coin ONLY contacts the cloth where product has been applied to avoid dry rubbing.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE AS A SOAK AND CONDITIONER/PROTECTANT:
NOTE: Recommended for uncirculated and delicate coins - but less effective at removing surface debris. I thought this product removes surface debris: See Directions for use as a debris remover above! VERDI-CARE™ IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR PROOF COINS.
1) Place the specimen into a filled, covered container -OR- add just enough VERDI-CARE™to cover the surface of the coin. DO NOT ALLOW THE SOLUTION TO
EVAPORATE. Or what happens...inquiring minds wish to know. Does the chemist/collector who makes/sells this product ever post on CT.
2) Soak one side of the coin for a few seconds or until the desired results are obtained, then flip the coin to expose the opposite side to the product for an equivalent time (if required). Soaking either side for longer than 24 hours is not recommended. DO NOT OVER EXPOSE THE COIN. It should be removed from solution as soon as the desired results are obtained. As with ANY chemical (even water), a change in the patina and/or coin surface may result from unnecessary over-exposure. Oh no, I've had some coins soaking in water for a few days WITHOUT any change. better go check them...Bye. I'll be waiting for some answers from people who have actually used this "wonder" product. So far, it is a nice preservative. At the moment, I'm running a test that will take several more weeks to complete - just to make sure I can comment intelligently on this product.

 

As with any product that removes contaminants, the contaminants are transferred from the surface of the coin to the liquid. If the liquid evaporates, the contaminants are left behind on the coin right where they started.

Acetone is not effective for removing and arresting verdigris, while this is.

I've never used a micro fiber towel on a coin like those instructions suggest. There are certainly easier ways of spreading the product over the surface without touching anything other than the liquid.

Verdicare really does wonders for saving mint state non-proof copper coins with small spots of verdigris or that have that "fuzzy" look to them. As I mentioned above, the manufacturers would love you to use it for other purposes too, but I don't see the point.

 

Thank you! I'll bet TJ beats me to all the "old" info posted for VC..

Also I shall try to engage @BadThad in a conversation later. At the moment, I'm trying to ruin some "cull" Cents that have been "preserved."

 

Interesting comment. I also thought this was true until a few years ago when I left an 8 Reals with active green ["verdigris," "corrosion," whatever we call it (?)] soak in acetone for a few hours. SHOCK & SURPRISE! ALL the green in the corroded pits dissolved w/o changing the areas of black corrosion.

 

If the green spots dissolved, they weren't verdigris. Verdigris is a somewhat loose name for ionic salts of copper caused by surface contamination. Acetone won't touch ionic compounds. If the green were from PVC slime, it would remove it admirably.

 

Thanks for the information. You sound like a chemist Whatever you wish to call the solid, hard, green, "set" corrosion product, it dissolved with an acetone soak. Care didn't touch it and ultrasonic had no effect, only one common numismatic product (not dip) that shall remain unmentionable until someone else mentions it WORKED as a BETTER soak after we did more experimentation. It is not Verdi-Care.

I rarely bother with acetone anymore for (whatever we call it) the hard green stuff. That's probably PROOF of your information about the "Ionic Salts of Copper"

 

I would like to add something. As a metal detectorist I've found that older copper coins that need soaking in olive oil will take on a nice rejuvenating patina if you put a few, no more than 3, drops on CLP-Gun cleaning oil- in with the olive oil. But all the advice above is perfectly sound and better than mine. As a side note I found this out by experimenting one day with a CWT I found in the waste high water in the potomac. I was cleaning my pistol after a day at the range and I had the token sitting in a condiment cup like you get ketchup in and was like what the heck it's already been in the water for 150+ years. To my surprise one of my hair brained Ideas actually worked!!!

 

GREAT INFO! I've got several cleaning products around. Is "CLP" the actual product name.

Ancient collectors know all about olive oil. The solution turns into a poison so be careful.

 

Really tasty with some vinegar on a salad, but don't overdo it...CAUTION THIS POST IS SARCASM...DON'T TRY THIS!

 

I was going to say...

 

lol yeah and putting hot sauce on silver coinage causes noxious fumes. Seriously it does. CLP is just the acronym for Cleaning, lubricating, and protectant. Theres plenty of companies out there and I have NOT tried them all.
If were getting down to craziness I had a guy who found a live CW cannon ball and to remove the rust baked it in the oven!!! UXO (unexploded ordenance) scares the crap out of me.

 

Insider, I will try to answer some your questions:

It will evaporate (mostly) and potentially redeposit the very thing you were trying to remove.

Acetone is indeed much cheaper but verdigris salts are insoluble in acetone.

I have not seen this occur at all, VC is an excellent lubricant and I have zero reports of this technique leaving scratches. I've used the towel method on hundreds of coins with no ill-effect.

The soaking method is very gentle (as VC is). Stubbornly attached residue will generally not be removed - such residues will require physical action.

On a final note, you can search for the forums, my ebay feedback and the internet for others experiences with VC. The tone of your post is quick to condemn but the data/information is out there. It's not just a bunch of "hype" as you imply. I too am a collector (and chemist) and I made the product for MYSELF. It worked so well I decided to share it with other collectors - but the motivation was my personal need to conserve my coins.

Before VC, all the methods people suggested on the internet to remove verdigris were futile or damaged my coins, i.e. catsup, vinegar, drain cleaner, acetone, olive oil, etc. I've tried them all. IMO, they are all pure bunk and either damaged the coin or did nothing.

 

Thanks for you reply. I do have respect for you as I read you are a copper collector and chemist! I have read a lot about your product and have tried it. You must be very proud of your discovery.

As I said before, so far in my experience, it is a good preservative. Perhaps, too gentle and slow for my conservation needs.

I am going to try the micro towel on a dirty coin. Actually that would be an unfair test as I guarantee [until I actually try it] the coin would get hairlined. I'll do the test using a fairly clean coin.

PS Someone needs to post some photos of verdigris so we can all get our needs/opinions in line. I'll keep that in mind and start taking a few photos.

 

Here are a couple examples to illustrate how well this stuff works on copper.

Here's a Hungarian 1868KB copper krajczar (19mm) that had a fuzzy appearance and mild corrosion.

Before:


After verdi-care (graded MS63 BN):


Here's a Hungarian 1885KB copper krajczar. Had a spot of verdigris in the center of the obverse, but otherwise pleasing surfaces.

Before:


After verdi-care (graded MS64 RB). I don't have a better after photo but the verdi-care completely removed the spot. You can't even tell it was ever there.:

 

VERY NICE conservation job . I should have guessed you used MS-70 by the color.



I just "copied" these comments from my post on an "I like cleaned coins" old thread. Perhaps it belongs here. We had a discussion about toothpicks and conservation over there.

One poster wrote: I know, I know.... I should've dressed it up with 36,000 little schmuckish smiley faces to make it more readable and, ahem, "interesting". Yeah... that's the ticket (roll eyes here).Click to expand...

I had a better suggestion for him: Take forty-nine cents and write to someone who cares. I got off your "train to silly-town" a while back. Here's one for you
Insider, Yesterday at 9:50 PM Report
#1335 + Quote Reply

• 1. 
     
     InsiderOn Loan From...
  1. For anyone on the "silly train" still interested:
     
     I just found a coin to run an EXPERIMENT with. As I don't believe in - I'm from the SHOW ME not - the TELL ME branch of Numismatics.
     
     Now you'll need to trust me on this. In my joyous rush to validate the statement that: "Toothpicks don't damage coins; people do;" I forgot to take a before micrograph of the "N." Nevertheless, I found a lesser amount of the identical "verdigris" residue on a leaf.
     
     DISCLAMER: Don't use dry toothpicks on coins. Proper conservation can be done using a stereo scope, chemicals, a "sharpened" toothpick, AND YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.
     
     I took a large cent and scraped off the gunk using a round, "unsharpened," BONE DRY toothpick. The coin came out fine...no hairlines. NOTE: THIS IS NOT CONSIDERED to be a PROPER method of conservation. Maybe I just got lucky
     
     You be the judge.
     
     PS: For you nitpickers - If this coin were sent in for conservation, I would have spent more time and taken off ALL the "micro-green" still left on the "N." It's NOT worth the time as all of this could have been done in seconds w/chemicals!
     PSS: I'll see if I can find a PROOF next
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1. Last edited: Today at 12:36 PM
2. Insider, Today at 11:26 AM Report

Is this what @Jaelus calls (on the leaf) "verdigris?

 

And here I thought only mods could move a post from one thread to another

 

I have no clue? It saved me lots of typing and uploading. Didn't transfer correctly either. Anyway, thanks for the warning; I will not do it anymore.