Coin #4 - Guess the CTer 2021

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Curtisimo, Feb 26, 2021.


Comment below to play. Use the poll just for fun.

Poll closed Mar 1, 2021.
  1. Parthicus

  2. Curtisimo

  3. Cucumbor

  4. bcuda

  5. Theodosius

  1. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    Welcome to Round 4 of Guess the CTer 2021. For the latest updates on the game, to check what other coins have been posted and to review the clues to the possible prizes please check out the master thread.

    [Ancients] Guess the Cointalker 2021 (Master Thread)

    Coin #4
    Sicily, Syracuse
    EL 50 Litrae, Syracuse mint, struck ca. 317 - 289 BC
    Dia.: 15 mm
    Wt.: 3.49

    Why I Added the Coin to my Collection
    What attracted me to the coin is its attractive reddish patina, nice style, and good state of preservation. It may be ex-jewelry and has filed edges but that does not detract much from it, in my opinion, because I don't spend much time looking at the edges. Syracuse is one of my major sub collections and I had no gold or electrum from there so this also helps fill that hole. Having a David Sear certificate is always nice making for less chance of it being a forgery.

    How the Game Works
    I have enlisted the participation of four well known CoinTalk members (plus myself). Each of us has submitted a photo of a coin that we have never posted to the forum along with a brief description of why we included the coin in our collections. See below for the list of members who have agreed to participate.


    The goal of the game will be for members to try and match each coin with its owner (one of the 5 members listed above). There will be a separate thread for each coin posted every 3 days and each thread will produce a winner. The winner’s name will be chosen at random from the participants in the thread but you can earn multiple chances to win based on the following rules.
    1. Guess who the owner of the coin is and give a reason why you think that. (Ex.: I believe that this coin belongs to Curtisimo because he once gave himself a concussion trying to skateboard down a half pipe without ever practicing.) This is the minimum requirement for entry into the drawing. You must post a comment for your guess to be counted. Please include a reason with your guess.
    2. Anyone who posts a photo of an ancient coin along with their guess (related or not) will receive an extra chance to win.
    3. Anyone who gives a particularly well thought out or amusing reason why you guessed a certain person will receive an extra chance to win.
    4. Anyone who guesses correctly will receive an extra chance to win.
    5. Anyone who is a young numismatist (age 18 or younger) will receive an extra chance to win. If you are a YN please say so in your entry post.
    In total there can be up to 5 chances to win for each member in each thread!

    A Note to the Volunteers
    If you would like to follow along with the results of the poll feel free to vote for yourself or at random.

    A Note to Poll Voters
    The poll option is intended just for fun. To have your guess counted you MUST comment in the thread.
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Alright, I am going completely out on a limb and guessing that this coin belongs to none none other than our own host, @Curtisimo .

    Why? Because I have already guessed @Parthicus @Cucumbor and @Theodosius . That only leaves me with Curtisimo and @bcuda .
    I know that bcuda is heavy into Spanish ancients so I am just going to throw something at the wall and hope it sticks.

    I can't wait to see just how badly I do :)

    Happy Friday all!

    I don't have a coin with a tripod on the reverse (at least not prominently) but I do have one that has this table with 3 urns. When I saw the contest coin, it immediately made me think of it.

    This was the first coin I ordered from Vcoins and I ordered it in 2020 after the Baltimore Whitman show was cancelled for the first time due to Covid.

    Province of Macedon
    Roman Imperial period
    3rd Century A.D.
    AE 26
    Obverse: Head of Alexander III right, with flowing hair
    Reverse: Agonistic table surmounted by 3 prize urns
  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    This quite clearly belongs to @Theodosius. Wait... did I already guess that in another round? No matter, I'm very sure this is Theodosius's! At least until Round 5, anyway. :shame:

    Syracuse Litra Hippocamp.jpg
    SICILY, Syracuse
    AE Litra. 7.16g, 19.7mm. SICILY, Syracuse, Dionysios I, circa 400-390 BC. CNS 41; SNG ANS 434-446. O: ΣVPA, Head of Athena left, wearing Corinthian helmet decorated with wreath; pellet behind. R: Bridled hippocamp left.
    Ex Edgar L. Owen Collection
  5. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter


    Smoking gun:
    Screen Shot 2021-02-26 at 6.52.10 PM.jpg

    On the other hand, Theodosius has talked about edges at least 14 times, so...?

    In any case, it is a spectacular coin!!!

    Here's one of my few electrum:
    EL Hekte, Lesbos, Mytilene, c. 454-427 BC
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    I believe it is @Curtisimo ’s. Me feel it in me bones. Kinda a Sicily lovin’ guy.

    Here is an AR litra not too far away...

    Sicily, Kamarina.
    AR litra, 11mm, 0.56g, 9h;
    c. 461-440/35 BC.
    Obv.: Nike flying left; below, swan standing left; all within wreath.
    Rev.: KAMAPI-NAION; Athena standing left, holding spear; at her feet, shield.
    Ref: Westermark & Jenkins series 2C; SNG ANS 1212-6
  7. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight I AM the Senate! Supporter

    I was going to go with @Parthicus because of a recent previous post of his saying:

    “I guess I might mention that I am proud of my Sicilian heritage”

    Buuut I also then did some more research and learned he “[doesn’t] collect archaic or classical Greek”, so I highly doubt Parthicus has a Syracuse subcollection. So that only just leaves @Curtisimo left. But more research is not showing me much in the way of Syracuse or even Sicily from Curtisimo, much less any mention of having a Syracuse subcollection. Which leads me to think that perhaps I should guessed Curtisimo for Round #2 and guessed @Theodosius for this round :banghead: (so I will have guess Curtisimo on this one).

    I believe my understanding of who owns what has improved:


    But I realize now my performance in this contest hasn’t been as good as I had thought:


    Hieron II, Kingdom of Syracuse
    Obv: Laureate head of Hieron II left.
    Rev: ΙΕΡΟΝΩΣ; Horseman galloping right, holding spear; below horse, Φ.
    Mint: Syracuse
    Date: 274-216 BC
    Ref: HGC 2, 1547; CNS II 193


    And another Syracusan coin but from about 1000 years later:

    Constantine IV, Byzantine Empire
    AE follis
    Obv: Helemeted, cuirassed bust facing, holding cross on globe
    Rev: Large M, Heraclius standing on left holding cross on globe , Tiberius standing on right holding cross on globe, monogram above
    Mint: Syracuse
    Date: 668-685 AD
    Ref: SB 1207

    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  8. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    That is beautiful!
    Alegandron and Curtisimo like this.
  9. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    There is something about coin 4 that does make one question every thought that came before before coin 4...

    A few CT members had asked about the architecture of my predictive bot, and given the many helpful suggestions, I will share this useful diagram.

    The estimated probabilities of ownership for Coin #4 are:
    The added Quality loop (in blue above) seems to have fixed the recurring problem with selecting ineligible members. Given @Curtisimo is still one of the esteemed members to whom I have not assigned a coin, I will stay the course and select him as the owner of coin 4. I seem to have misplaced all my 50 Litrae coins of Syracuse, so instead I will post this coin from Sicily 100 years later.
    Victoriatus 67-1.jpg
    Anonymous, circa 211-208 BC. AR Victoriatus
    Mint: uncertain mint in Sicily
    Obv: Laureate head of Jupiter to right.
    Rev: ROMA Victory standing front, head to right, placing wreath on trophy.
    Size: 16 mm, 2.46 g
    Ref: Crawford 67/1. RBW 297-299. Sydenham 83
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  10. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Now I have a big mess :eek:: I only have @bcuda and @Parthicus left as candidates.o_O @Particus says that he doesn't collect Archaic and Classical Greek and @bcuda collects mostly Celt-Iberian coins; guess one can't vote twice for the same person, so I probably have to pass on this one or just vote blindly for @bcuda or @Parthicus with 99.99% probability that it doesn't belong to any of them:wideyed:. Most probably it belongs to @Curtisimo.
    In short, my understanding of who owns what is really bad:D

    A second Agathokles (already posted one in Round #2):

    Æ Litra, Sicily, Syracuse ca. 304-289 BC
    20 x 21 mm, 8.585 g
    CNS II, 142; SNG Copenhagen 779;

    Ob.: ΣΩΤΕΙΡΑ head of Artemis Soteira r., quiver behind neck
    Rev.: ΑΓΑΘΟΚΛΕ(ΩΣ) ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩ(Σ), winged thunderbolt between legend

    upload_2021-2-26_21-15-24.png upload_2021-2-26_21-15-40.png
  11. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    The analogy expressed in the 4th graphic of yours Curtisimo is frustratingly spot on:jimlad:
    The coin is clearly @Parthicus throwing you all off the sent!
    Love that some are playing coins that are their normal collecting style and others are posting these:wacky:
    Who were the enemies of the parthians? Nice try choosing the opposition.
    And who loves excellent portraits in AR? Yep. All signs point to Parthicus:cigar:
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Thank you. It is dark, but it is AR.
    Curtisimo likes this.
  13. Yorkshire

    Yorkshire Well-Known Member

    I believe this is @Curtisimo and again no actual reason just a pure guess
    LaCointessa, Curtisimo and Theodosius like this.
  14. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    I have seen this handsome coin before but don't remember where or when :confused:. I'm going to select Parthicus for this coin for the same illogical reasoning postulated by Ryro :p. Parthicus is proud of his Sicilian heritage & I'm proud of my 1/2 Sicilian heritage on my mother's side :happy:. The coin pictured below is not Sicilian, however, it was struck in western Sicily at the Entella Mint.
    4167455-013, AK Collection.jpg
  15. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Theodosius is my guess. All of the volunteers have coins I would like in my collection, but @Theodosius's collection theme's are more closely aligned with mine.
    Sicily Gela.jpg
    AR Litra
    OBV: Naked horseman galloping left holding spear & shield
    REV: Forepart of man-headed bull right
    Struck at Gela, Sicily, 425BC
    0.36g; 13mm
    SNG Cop 275, BMC 52, Jenkins 405; HGC 2 374
  16. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    Whoever the owner of the OP is, it's a beautiful coin. I love syracusan coins, and ummm El stater, why not .... some day ......



  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Hmmm... @Sulla80 ... I am observing a LOT of ReWork in that process... I am losing confidence in the output (despite it falling out of packing)...

  18. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    Well, as Homer Simpson once said, "You can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true." The facts you cite prove that the coin is mine, and they also prove it is not mine. So the coin sits there, like Schroedinger's cat, stuck in quantum indeterminacy until an observer (Curtisimo) comes along to collapse the wave function.
  19. Claudius_Gothicus

    Claudius_Gothicus Well-Known Member

    This time, I feel like figuring out the owner of this fantastic coin was easier: the time period, the geographic location and the lighting in the photo all allow me to claim, with relative confidence, that it belongs to @Theodosius, though I am not able to refute the theory that a volunteer might have picked a coin completely unrelated to his collecting field just to confuse us :D.

    Again, unfortunately my YN collection doesn't have any coin of this time period, and I'm even running out of ones to show, so I fear this one will have to do; at least it's one I don't think I have posted before:
    Claudius II (268-270), Antoninianus, Antioch mint.
    Obverse: IMP C CLAVDIVS AVG, radiate head left;
    Reverse: SAL-VS AVG, Diana standing right, drawing arrow from quiver and holding bow in hand, facing Apollo standing left, holding olive branch in hand and lyre which rests on rock;
    RIC 219, RIC V Online 1088
    furryfrog02, cmezner, Bing and 9 others like this.
  20. Ignoramus Maximus

    Ignoramus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Lovely coin.

    I'm going to play the long odds on this one and say it's mine.:)

    Admittedly, a small chance of success, but imagine the pay-off if I'm right!

    Another Magna Graecia: 94D (2).jpg Gela man headed bull.jpg
    Gela, 450-440. 16,86 gr. 26 mm.

    Ok, I'm playing some seriously long odds here, I realize that. But can you blame me? It's a great Syracusan electrum and wouldn't you like to own it as well?
    Besides, stranger things have been known to happen in the past: the Red Sea parted for Mozes, a forest moved to Elsinore Castle in Macbeth, and some even say men walked on the moon, to name but a few... So, I don't see any reason why this coin can't be mine.

    And what do I have to lose? I was probably wrong with all my other guesses as well, so why not take a blind leap of faith this time? Hope springs eternal...:)

    On a more realistic level, though I have to (grudgingly) admit that this is probably @Curtisimo's coin. And a lovely one it is!
    furryfrog02, cmezner, Bing and 10 others like this.
  21. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    LOL - we haven’t seen the outcomes on quality yet, but I definitely see ways to lower COGS :)
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
    Theodosius, Alegandron and Curtisimo like this.
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