Coin #2 - Guess the CTer 2021

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Curtisimo, Feb 20, 2021.

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Comment below to play. Use the poll just for fun.

Poll closed Feb 23, 2021.
  1. Parthicus

    3.7%
  2. Curtisimo

    22.2%
  3. Cucumbor

    11.1%
  4. bcuda

    3.7%
  5. Theodosius

    59.3%
  1. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    A55A848B-6095-4BF7-ACD2-9DB264D78D51.gif

    Welcome to Round 2 of Guess the CTer 2021. For the latest updates on the game, to check what other coins have been posted and to review the clues to the possible prizes please check out the master thread.

    [Ancients] Guess the Cointalker 2021 (Master Thread)

    Coin #2
    6507F4F4-CC7B-4FC9-B187-F5D5887A5849.jpeg
    Sicily, Syracuse
    Agathokles
    AR Tetradrachm, minted in Africa or Sicily, struck ca. 317-289 BC
    Dia.: 26 mm
    Wt.: 17.19 g


    Why I Added the Coin to my Collection
    The dies used to make this coin represent one of the two styles of this type struck under Agathokles of Syracuse. This style has an obverse portrait that is very different than what was seen previously on Syracusan coins. One theory is that this style was struck in Africa to pay mercenaries when Agathokles invaded the territory of Carthage. Some of the references mention that this style is artistically inferior to the other style of the same design but I think this style is both elegant and original.

    Agathokles has been described as the last larger than life king of Syracuse so I’m happy to have a coin so directly associated with his exploits. This coin also has a provenance going back to 1931 which is a nice bonus.

    How the Game Works
    I have enlisted the participation of four well known CoinTalk members (plus myself). Each of us has submitted a photo of a coin that we have never posted to the forum along with a brief description of why we included the coin in our collections. See below for the list of members who have agreed to participate.

    @Parthicus
    @Curtisimo
    @Cucumbor
    @bcuda
    @Theodosius

    The goal of the game will be for members to try and match each coin with its owner (one of the 5 members listed above). There will be a separate thread for each coin posted every 3 days and each thread will produce a winner. The winner’s name will be chosen at random from the participants in the thread but you can earn multiple chances to win based on the following rules.
    1. Guess who the owner of the coin is and give a reason why you think that. (Ex.: I believe that this coin belongs to Curtisimo because he once gave himself a concussion trying to skateboard down a half pipe without ever practicing.) This is the minimum requirement for entry into the drawing. You must post a comment for your guess to be counted. Please include a reason with your guess.
    2. Anyone who posts a photo of an ancient coin along with their guess (related or not) will receive an extra chance to win.
    3. Anyone who gives a particularly well thought out or amusing reason why you guessed a certain person will receive an extra chance to win.
    4. Anyone who guesses correctly will receive an extra chance to win.
    5. Anyone who is a young numismatist (age 18 or younger) will receive an extra chance to win. If you are a YN please say so in your entry post.
    In total there can be up to 5 chances to win for each member in each thread!

    A Note to the Volunteers
    If you would like to follow along with the results of the poll feel free to vote for yourself or at random.

    A Note to Poll Voters
    The poll option is intended just for fun. To have your guess counted you MUST comment in the thread.
     
    cmezner, zumbly, Ryro and 5 others like this.
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  3. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

    This is Curtisimos coin, I think. Reason: He’s a rascal, and I’m clueless.

    Sicily Syracuse Phyrrhus.JPG

    Syracuse, Sicily, time of Pyrrhos. 278-276 BC. AE 23mm. Head of Herakles left, in lionskin headdress / ΣYΡAKOΣIΩN, Athena Promachos advancing right, brandishing spear and shield; wreath in left field. SNG ANS 846.
     
  4. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    Wow !
    Nice coin style and long provenance. A keeper for sure

    Q
     
    LaCointessa, Curtisimo and svessien like this.
  5. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

    Now the participants are playing mind games too. I’m lucky if I’m not 0/5 when it’s over.
     
    LaCointessa, Alegandron, Ryro and 2 others like this.
  6. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    If the last two years are any indication the volunteers had more fun playing mind games on the players than they did in trying to privately guess the ones that aren't theirs (the volunteers only know their own coin). Good times :D
     
  7. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    A very nice coin of Syracuse! I've done a bit more work with my predictive bot, disciplining its unsupervised approach, feeding it a couple of Pythons and making the objective function a bit more subjective. Its inference engine is still fueled by past posts from the 5 esteemed CT members as its primary input, with some random nudges to avoid local minima. The estimated probabilities of ownership for Coin #2 are:
    Clearly still some improvement to be made in the coming days. However, with complete confidence, I selected @Theodosius as the owner of Coin #2. I will add to the thread, this coin minted in Sicily about 100 years later.
    Janus Katane.jpg Sicily, Katane, circa 204-187 BC, AE
    Obv: Janiform head of Serapis; three monograms around
    Rev: KATA-NAIΩN, Demeter standing left, holding grain ears and torch
    Size: 12.36g, 21mm
    Ref: Casabona 10; BAR Issue 9; CNS 14; HGC 2, 619
    Notes: Between a Rock and a Hard Place
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  8. Yorkshire

    Yorkshire Well-Known Member

    @Theodosius mainly because I have no clue what so ever
     
    LaCointessa, cmezner and Curtisimo like this.
  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    I'm betting @Curtisimo on this one, because he cares about firsts (like me!), style matters to him but not as much as it does to Theodosius, he cares about history and provenance, wouldn't be bothered by the slightly worn obverse die, and buying this coin would have motivated him to launch the game so he could show it off. :D

    Awesome coin, whosever it is!!

    Earlier Syracuse ( Hieron I tet, 478-467 BC):
    Screen Shot 2021-02-20 at 2.50.20 PM.jpg
     
  10. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Oof..........
    First off... This is an absolutely STUNNING coin. The bust on the obverse is beautifully engraved. That coupled with a Nike reverse makes it an absolute winner in my book!

    giphy.gif


    Now....for who owns this amazing work of art...
    I will vote for @Cucumbor . Why???? Why Not?
    I've seen some of of Cucumbor's posts in the past and there have been some exquisite artistry displayed in the coins posted. That's not to say that the other contestants don't have beautiful coins...I'm just gonna go with my gut on this one and keep my fingers crossed.
    CleanDisastrousFlamingo-small.gif

    For a coin, I will add my coin from Hieron II, minted not too long after OP's coin.


    Syracuse, Sicily
    Hieron II
    274-216 BC
    AE 19
    Obverse: Diademed head of Poseidon left
    Reverse: IEΡΩNOΣ, tripod flanked by dolphins; AY monogram below
    Syracuse AE19 Poseidon.jpg
     
  11. Orielensis

    Orielensis Supporter! Supporter

    A teriffic coin!

    This has to be @Curtisimo . Most others would post such a piece on CT immediately after having it in hand – only he would keep it a secret for the sake of this game. Also, he has great taste in Greek and Roman silver, and this therefore is a coin right up his alley.

    Another, much less spectacular coin from Syracuse:
    Griechen – Sizilien, Syrakus, Agathokles AE, Apollo und Adler.png
    Sicily, Syracuse (under Hiketas), AE22, 287–278 BC. Obv: [ΔIOΣ EΛΛANIOY]; head of Zeus Hellanios, laureate, l. Rev: ΣYPAK[OΣION]; eagle standing l. on thunderbolt, with wings displayed; monogram to l. 22mm, 9.94g. Ref: CNS II, 157 DS 112 R1 4 (p. 304); HGC II, 1448.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  12. Claudius_Gothicus

    Claudius_Gothicus Well-Known Member

    Awesome coin, though this time the challenge to identify its owner was far trickier; while there were no language clues like in the last entry, I am still relatively confident that this coin belongs to @Curtisimo - I feel like that the way the description was written follows his usual type of writing, and I also believe that the reasonings behind the acquisition (the historical significance of the style and the provenance, in particular), follow his kind of collecting style.

    I don't have anything close to it neither in geographic location nor in time period, unfortunately, so here's a coin that has a winged Victory on the reverse, at least:
    P LIC COR VALERIANVS CAES - VICTORIA PART.jpg
    Valerian II (255-258), Antoninianus, Samosata mint.
    Obverse: P LIC COR VALERIANVS CAES, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust, seen from behind;
    Reverse: VICTORIA PART, Victory standing right, presenting wreath to Valerian II, holding spear;
    RIC 54
     
  13. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I have to go with Parthicus. I believe he collects coins of this quality and era, but other than that it is a pure guess.
    SICILY, SYRACUSE, HIERON II 1.jpg
    SICILY, SYRACUSE, HIERON II
    AE19
    OBVERSE: Head of Poseidon left
    REVERSE: IEP-ONOS, ornamented trident of Poseidon
    Struck at Syracuse, Sicily 275-216 BC
    6.5g; 19mm
    SG 1223
     
  14. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

  15. Ignoramus Maximus

    Ignoramus Maximus Well-Known Member

    My guess: Theodosius.

    I may be new to this game, but I'm not new to the mind-games that are played here.:)
    So, here's what happened: Curtisimo and Theodosius colluded. They took a coin of Theodosius in a style Theodosius would like, then deliberately made it look like a coin of Theodosius, guessing that no one would guess something as obvious like Theodosius. So, naturally, it's a coin of Theodosius. Unless I'm wrong, and it is a coin of Theodosius.

    Another famous Syracusan (from Corinth), this one more of a democrat: Syra, Zeus.jpg Syracuse hemidrachme reverse (2).jpg

    Timoleon and the Third Democracy.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  16. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    I'm guessing @Theodosius . With my in-depth research I discovered he has some very nice Greek coins (in spite of his username). In spite of my username, I have this:

    SG974SicilySyracuseAgathokley10175.jpg
    17.02 grams. It is a lot like the OP coin and has the same attribution. Ergo, the OP coin belongs to @Theodosius !
     
  17. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    This beauty is so obviously the coin of Syracuse obsessed(!!!) @Theodosius posting a little snack (little to he is MASSIVE to me) to to throw us off the sent left by his fabulous artistic appreciation:cigar::pompous:
    giphy-8.gif
    Oh, and an A-got-to-sneeze in beautiful bronze, I got us covered;)
    20190326_140630_FC7539F3-5DDA-4854-B5AB-7C7A3E4ACB2C-406-000000B1367D23DC.png
    Agathokles
    from Syracuse on Sicily Ae-20mm 295-289 BCE.
    Av. head of Herakles right
    Rv. Lion walking right, above club
    quality is very fine with a brown patina, weight is 6,61gr.
    SNG ANS 737
    Former: cichosgladiator11
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    It is a coin toss for me between @Curtisimo and @Theodosius ... so, I FLIPPED my Agathokles and it came up TAILS... FULL of BULL... I pick @Theodosius !

    [​IMG]
    Sicily Syracuse
    317-289 BCE
    AE 23 Hemilitron
    Agathokles
    Kore
    Bull Dolphin Left
     
  19. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker Supporter

    Are you saying there is some connection between me and bull! :) :) :)

    Could be...
     
  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    It is fun to push the mind-play back onto the Players. :)
     
    LaCointessa, Theodosius and Curtisimo like this.
  21. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I'll join in the Curtisimo guessing group because this is the second coin and that is when I predict that he would put in his entry. That is not the best reason I could invent but it is what you get this time.
    This Artemis / thunderbolt AE22 is also Agathokles. It was purchased from Ed Waddell in 1988 back when he actually had two digit coins. If it had been struck evenly, I could not have afforded it
    g20610bb0123.jpg
     
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