Featured Chinese vs Australian Bullion..WOW!

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Gam3rBlake, Dec 5, 2020.

  1. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Hey guys I recently was looking through my safe and found a bunch of international bullion I bought about 5 years ago from a well known, internationally reputable, dealer and among my order were several Australian Kookaburras & Chinese Pandas.

    Just for fun I decided to test the dimensions and weight and get a feel for what the real ones are supposed to feel like.

    However when I was weighing them I noticed something really strange. ALL of the Australian silver bullion had at least a half of gram of silver more than the Chinese Panda.

    Many of the Chinese pandas didn’t even weigh 1 troy ounce!

    I understand that the weights among these bullion coins varies even between the same coin by the same country but this was every single coin. I tested at least 40 of each and not once did even the heaviest Chinese Panda weigh more than the lightest Australian Kookaburras.

    If you’re losing 1/2 gram of silver per troy ounce purchased that means you’re losing 3 full troy ounces of silver for every 100oz you buy.

    I’d like to think the Chinese government doesn’t know this but could this be an intentionally underweight bullion coins that the Chinese are selling at full troy oz prices?

    They sell them in such large quantities that shaving 1/2 gram off each of them would net the Chinese government millions of troy ounces in profit.

    I just wanted to put this out there in case there were people out there stacking pandas who didn’t know. They were the lightest of all the bullion coins according to my own tests.

    I also want to give props to Australia for minting the heaviest of the silver bullion coins I tested. Weighing in at an average of 31.4 grams! The average Panda? A disappointing average of 31.0 grams.

    My testing was done with coins taken straight out of tubes from the Mint when possible. If not then whatever other government packaging of that country offered.

    If anyone wants to know the minimum, maximum and average content I found in various national 1oz silver bullion coins I tested the following:

    - American Silver Eagles
    - Canadian Maple Leafs
    - British Britannia’s
    - Mexican Libertads
    - Australian Kookaburas
    - Chinese Pandas
    - Somali Elephants

    Just let me know.

    CD363A46-F79F-46F8-8018-02AB36A180E2.jpeg 85C8B941-8E0B-484A-A134-82602B9586E8.jpeg
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
    capthank, Rich Buck and Bob Evancho like this.
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  3. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king. Supporter

    Do the Pandas say 1oz or 30g on them?

    In 2015 the Gold and Silver Panda coins were not labeled with metal fineness and weight. This information returned in 2016 when the 1 troy ounce coin was replaced by the 30-gram coin (one troy ounce is approximately 31.1 grams).
    Alegandron and medoraman like this.
  4. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    They were sold as 1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver.

  5. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    This is 2015 not when they switched to 30g in 2016.

    They definitely wouldn’t be giving away a full extra gram.

    But they are being sold as 1 troy ounce by big name dealers.
  6. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    See it still should be 1 oz of fine silver.

    yakpoo likes this.
  7. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king. Supporter

    If buying that much, why not get Gold Eagles or pre-33?

    I try not do anything from China.
  8. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Just picked up a couple of Eagles.

    That’s not the point though. The point is be careful with Chinese Silver Pandas because they seem to be a bit underweight. I’m just wondering if it’s intentional.

  9. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    P.S. I know a lot of people think APMEX is way too overpriced and that you’ll never break even let alone make a profit.

    But I’ve been buying for years and I’ve definitely seen prices go above what I paid even buying from APMEX

    If anyone told me I couldn’t sell these 1oz silver rounds for more than I paid they’d be lying through their teeth.

    $18.86 for a 1 oz silver Austrian Philharmonic is almost $6 less than melt today and it would get some sort of premium.

    Just sayin’

  10. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

  11. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Im not showing anything off.

    My collection & stacking is nothing compared to most people on here.

    I would be embarassing myself even trying to show off.

    I only showed the Gold Eagles because he asked why I didn’t buy them and to show that I did.

    & as for the silver...buying like $300 of silver @ $19-22/oz is hardly worth bragging about.

    I don’t understand what is being considered to be shown off.

    Even if I was showing off: Isnt that the point of collecting? To share?
    Bob Evancho and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  12. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    All your threads come off as bragging! That's all I'm saying, you come off as a braggart and nobody likes a braggart! I show off as well but you can't come off as 'I have something and you don't' as you will ruffle feathers, that's all I'm saying.
  13. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    If I come off that way I apologize.
    I don’t know any other way.

    Im just new, excited and eager to share the stuff I like with others.

    I was inspired by others sharing their stuff with me.

    If you have any advice on how I could come off less so I would be happy to hear.

    But I promise you my intention was never to brag about anything. I think at worst it was overeagerness to share.
    51Caveman, MIGuy, Idoono and 10 others like this.
  14. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Well you're at the right coin forum to learn for sure. Also, you can make yourself an album if you want! ;)

  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I like your enthusiasm. Sometimes we ruffle one another's feathers here, but I think your intentions were honest.

    Keep the posts coming.......:D
  16. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Does anybody have any analysis of his different weights ?
  17. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    The weight differential is disturbing and alarming to say the least. It could be that certain coins have less silver due to quality control, but that is unlikely.

    more likely is that the Chinese are trying, as the Chinese do, to scam. You can’t even trust the Chinese mint, which is a shame.

    lesson here: get nothing from China.
    jtlee321, Tater, Bob Evancho and 6 others like this.
  18. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to pay attention to any comments on this thread besides the ones ACTUALLY ADDRESSING THE QUESTION.

    And I wish I could contribute more information to the topic, but I'm rather confused as well. It's a very interesting thing to notice and I hope a definitive answer comes out for us all soon.
  19. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    @Gam3rBlake I would be careful with your logic. To say "I paid too much but its worth more now so its ok" is a pretty weak argument. PM is PM. You could have bought it cheaper from somewhere else and it STILL would be worth what it is worth today, meaning more profit. Rising PM does not mean too high a premium is "ok".

    We all pay, paid, or are still paying "dues" in this hobby. Key being you learn from them. We all paid too much for coins one time or another, that is the "dues" I talked about. Important things is to simply acknowledge it, learn, and move on. Buying from that firm is not the worst thing, they sell guaranteed real products. It might be a touch higher than others, but you know its genuine.

    Btw sir, I do not view your posts as bragging. I haven't taken them that way at all. You seem to me younger and enthusiastic. Good for you and great to have enthusiasm here on the board. Just like anything in life, we will not all get along. I can give you a list of at least 6 members here who think I am a blowhard idiot who knows nothing. It is what it is. I thought it was interesting comparing average weights from different mints. For any real validity, though, you would need a much larger sample set. If someone had an open monster box, that would be good data.
  20. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    You’re right I shouldn’t have implied that.

    I guess what I was trying to say is that from the very beginning of my coin collecting/stacking hobby people constantly told me “Don’t buy APMEX! It’s overpriced and you’ll never ever make up the money you spent on the premium.”

    From personal experience I wanted newer people like I used to be to know that that was not always true and that buying from APMEX doesn’t always mean you will never get any sort of profit.

    However it’s also possible you won’t. Just don’t be afraid of buying APMEX. They do tend to cost more but they’re also known for integrity, authentic products, and good customer service.

    It’s also true I would need a much larger sample size to get high accuracy results but I was just working with what I had. However from every other Mint I’ve bought from they usually put a little bit extra silver to guarantee it was indeed 1 full oz and not a fraction of a gram less

    It’s interesting only the Chinese Mint had 40 out of 40 coins sampled as underweight whereas none of the hundreds of other national bullion coins from all the other countries I tested were underweight. The lightest panda I tested was 29.8 grams. Over a full gram underweight.

    That is crazy underweight. Especially since this is being backed by the Chinese Mint as 1 full troy oz.

    I can’t imagine it’s all an accident that coincidentally makes the Chinese government tens of millions of dollars in silver.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  21. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    It’s not an accident, it’s a full fledged state backed defrauding operation. Thanks for exposing this with your tests
    jtlee321, JCKTJK and Gam3rBlake like this.
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