Hello everyone and welcome to the Silver (3rd place) vs Bronze (4th place) match of the 2018 CoinTalk Imperator Tournament. If you still don't know about the tournament it's not too late to catch up in the master thread! https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ancients-it’s-time-the-second-annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/ This is a special "just for fun" match up between two of our four finalist to determine the final order of our winners podium! I want to congratulate both players for making it to the finals round and also to thank them for agreeing to participate in this bonus match up. ............................................................ #10 @Cucumbor Urbs Roma, AE 3 Lugdunum mint, 1st officina, ca. 332 CE VRBS ROMA, Helmeted Roma left Anepigraph, but with incuse AMOR near to the left edge, She wolf suckling twins Remus and Romulus, two stars in field, Crescent dot PLG at exergue 2.86 gr Ref : Bastien # 221, RIC # 257 Price: $55 Why It's Cool: A die clash isn’t something you find everyday, and what makes this one very special is the incuse AMOR on the reverse! Would you expect a french guy to overlook and pass such a romantic legend on a coin? The she-wolf suckling twins has, for a long time, been a privileged collecting theme of mine. You find it from the very beginning of the roman republic coinage, as early as 269 BCE and for the next 700 hundred years. The Lugdunum mint was approximately 40 miles away from where I live. Bargain: You might find it’s a bit pricey, but remember me living just near Lyon (Lugdunum), and one expects a premium when buying a coin in the city it’s been produced because locals are more likely to collect them. It would have been cheaper had I bought it from the internet. To give an idea, it was initially tagged at 130 euros (~ 145 USD) and after some discussion and me making an offer the seller couldn’t refuse I got it for 50 euros (~55 USD) History: On the occasion of Constantinople becoming the new capital of the Empire aka the « new Rome » upon a decision of Constantine the Great in 330 CE, huge amounts of commemorative coins were issued in honor of both cities, URBS ROMA and CONSTANTINOPOLIS. They were struck for decades and can be easily found, making them a fun and affordable series to collect from the different mints. Constantinopolis city commemorative, Siscia mint Numismatic Interest - Die clash: When no blank planchet is put between the two dies, the process of striking will end in the reverse die being damaged by the obverse die because the latter is made from a somewhat harder metal. The result is so many coins being struck with the damage apparent on the reverse, until it’s spotted by someone. Here’s a closeup of what it looks like on my coin: At first my interpretation was, wrongly, that it might be a brockage, re-struck to have it pass through the quality control. Fortunately @dougsmit had already explained the phenomenon in his informative webpages: «While similar in appearance in some ways, the error that produced clashed die coins was quite different from that causing brockages. Clashed dies result when the dies are hammered together without a coin blank in place. The softer reverse die received a partial impression of the obverse. The result looks exactly like what we described as a restruck brockage. This student considers all such coins to be results of clashed dies. The extra work to restrike a brockage seems a lot to ask in a busy factory situation while accidental damage when a blank slipped out of place would seem quite common. » ............................................................ #24 @Pavlos Drachm from the Epirote League (234/3–168 B.C.) 4,23g; 22mm. Obverse: Head of Zeus Dodonaeus right wearing oak wreath, monogram below and behind. Reverse: ΑΠΕΙ - ΡΩΤΑΝ; eagle with closed wings standing right on thunderbolt, oak wreath around. Mint: Phoenice, Epiros. 234/3–168 B.C. Reference: Franke 32-91. Price: $90 Why It’s Cool: Bargain: Why is it a bargain? The coin had very good centering and has a lot of good detail still visible. The prices on these coins can go very high when they are very nicely centered, see the vcoins link below. https://www.vcoins.com/en/Search.as...cords=100&SearchOnSale=False&Unassigned=False History: Deidamia was, after the death of her father and that of her uncle Ptolemy (not the Ptolemy from Egypt), the last surviving representative of the royal Aeacid dynasty in Epiros. She had a sister, Nereis, who married Gelo of Syracuse. During a rebellion in Epiros her sister sent her 800 mercenaries from Gaul. Part of the Molossians supported her, and with the aid of the mercenaries she briefly took Ambracia. The Epirotes, however, determined to secure their liberty by eradicating the whole royal family, resolved to put her to death. She fled for refuge to the temple of Artemis, but was murdered in 233 BC in the sanctuary itself by Milo, a man already responsible of matricide, who shortly after this crime committed suicide. Her death brought the Epirote royal family to an abrupt extinction and a federal republic was set up, though with diminished territory, since western Acarnania had asserted its independence, and the Aetolians seized Ambracia, Amphilochia, and the remaining land north of the Ambracian Gulf. The new Epirote capital was therefore established at Phoenice, the political center of the Chaonians. The reasons for the swift fall of the Aeacid dynasty were probably complex. Aetolian pressure must have played a part, and the alliance with Macedonia may have been unpopular, in addition, there were perhaps social tensions. However, Epiros remained a substantial power, unified under the auspices of the Epirote League as a federal state with its own parliament. The Epirote League in 233 BC shown in Green (Athamania, an Epirote tribe not part of the league is shown in pink). There are bronze coins reading ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ, which are certainly earlier than the abolition of the monarchy, but the regular series of the Epirote Federal money did not begin till the Republic was fully constituted on the death of Deidamia. The autonomous coinage appears to have gone on in some of the towns of Epiros side by side with the Federal money. The prevailing types on the coins of Epiros are the heads of Zeus Dodonaeos and of Dione his spouse. The former is distinguished by his wreath of oak-leaves from the sacred oracular oak of Dodona. Phoenice, the capital of the Epirote Republic was the place of mintage of the Federal currency, in the same period it also struck municipal coins of bronze. Extremely rare 1/3 stater from Epirote League showing the jugate heads of Zeus and Dione. These are the civic emblem and representative of the great shrine at Dodona in Epiros, that was regarded as the oldest Hellenic oracle and second only in prestige to the great oracle of Delphi. In the following years, Epiros faced the growing threat of the expansionist Roman Republic, which fought a series of wars with Macedonia. The League remained neutral in the first two Macedonian Wars but split in the Third Macedonian War (171–168 BC), with the Molossians siding with the Macedonians and the Chaonians and Thesprotians siding with Rome. The outcome was disastrous for Epiros, Molossia fell to Rome in 168 BC and 150,000 of its inhabitants were enslaved, also all coinage ceased. ............................................................ 31 down and only one match up left to go! Tune in to CT tomorrow to catch our 2018 Championship!!!!
Great coin, @Pavlos! And with a special connection to your birthplace, even better. I commented on this coin in your original thread on it, so I won't add anything here. But I do feel compelled to add some comments on @Cucumbor's awesome coin. I suspect voters are not giving it enough credit... it's simply fantastic! I would even suggest that it is the most desirable possible die clash in the entire Roman series, for a reason Q didn't mention. The fact that "AMOR" was a palindrome of "ROMA" was apparently quite an important fact to the ancient Romans, documented in many places (e.g. the Aeneid where an oracle tells Aeneas to go to the land of his "amor", meaning Roma, and multiple palindromic inscriptions e.g. "Roma tibi subito motibus ibit amor"). In some accounts it is even the secret name of the city, which (if spoken) reveals the identity of its protective deity and annuls that protection, opening the city to attack. (In this case, the protective deity would be Venus.) Allegedly, Sulla once executed a tribune, Quintus Valerius Soranus, for uttering the secret name. So because of the palindrome, an ancient possessor of Q's coin would undoubtedly place great value on it, especially given that it occurs on an issue commemorating the city itself. It would have been seen as having a mystical, even magical significance. In addition it is surely extraordinarily rare. I for one would pay way more than Q did to get this coin!! Well done, sir!!
I always regretted the centering on my example but it does make the monogram behind the head easier to read. It does nothing for the one under the chin. I have to say that Severus Alexander's take on the Amor/Roma clash matter is one I never would have considered. However the palindrome does play in another mintmark of the period from the mint of Rome which reads R epwc (in monogram form) followed by the officina letter. The monogram word eros is Greek for the Latin amor which spells Roma backwards. When it comes to strange mintmarks, this one is hard to beat and does not even require a die clash to be special. This one is Crispus but they were made for all the current rulers of that period.
These two are both really great coins and I love how both have a special connection to your respective home regions. I really need to get a coin type showing Lupa the she-wolf. I had the privilege of seeing the Capitoline Wolf when I went to Rome this year which may be as old as the 5th century BC. Here is a coin that is (somewhat) related to both entries: It was struck under Constantine I AND has an eagle. Roman Empire Constantine I, AD 306-337 AE Follis, Cyzicus mint, 6th officina, struck ca. 313-315 Dia.: 21 mm Wt.: 3.8 g Obv.: IMP C FL VAL CONSTANTINVS P F AVG; Laureate head right Rev.: IOVI CONS-ERVATORI; Jupiter standing left, holding globe surmounted by Victory in right hand, holding scepter in left hand; eagle holding wreath in beak at left; S // SMK Ref.: RIC VII 3 Ex JAZ Numismatics Write up: Jupiter the Preserver
Excellent coins, you two! I really like both of them, but can totally appreciate how Q's has a bit more of a niche appeal here. I agree with Sev's point about it being bargain and would have snapped it up at that price too. As it is, it inspired me to go after this RR brockage in an auction yesterday. Alas, I didn't win it... probably some Italian (or French?) guy wanted it (a)more .
Our second to last match is officially closed! A valiantly fought effort by two great coiners! Results The only person to medal in both the 2017 and 2018 tournaments. In 2018 he will get the bronze medal... a round of applause for CoinTalk's favorite Frenchman! #10 @Cucumbor - 60 Earning the silver medal is the surprise underdog new collector. Another shout out to... #24 @Pavlos - 74 Winner Q came out on top in the interest category with his lovable die clash while Pavlos took the eye appeal and bargain categories with his Epirote beauty. Thanks again to both of you and to all those that voted. It's been an honor and a privileged interacting with you both in this tournament
Congrats @Pavlos for your impeccable journey through the tournament and this last victory. Obviously, being a newbie isn't a disadvantage when your coin are so well selected @Severus Alexander's nice addendum to my writeup wasn't enough to change the course of History ! Συγχαρητήρια Q
Well played, I liked the tournaments a lot and I will definitely join next year. I really wonder how my collection would look like in a year. I'm still sure that you have a lot and a lot of more nice coins in your collection compared to me, that is already a win on its own
Thanks, but I've been collecting for 40 years. I'm pretty sure on the other hand that when I was "one year old" at collecting your collection would have put mine to shame ! Q
