(ASE) MS vs PR, ?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Prime Mover, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. Prime Mover

    Prime Mover Active Member

    Sorry for the newbie question, but I'm looking at govmint.com's selection of ASE's, and I'm really not sure what the difference between MS70 and PR70 are. Both are "70", meaning perfect coins, but what is the difference between MS at $149, and PR at $249? Is one a special die or design?
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  3. dsmith23

    dsmith23 Gotta get 'em all

    Its a business strike (MS), and a proof coin (PR)
  4. andrew289

    andrew289 Senior Analyst

    Proof coins are shiny and Mint state coins have a matte finish. Don't get all hung up on "perfect" the premiums will eat up your spending money faster than a set of raw coins or if you really have to have certified bullion, a 69 set looks just like a 70 to the naked eye and it won't hurt the wallet as much.
  5. treehugger

    treehugger Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Also, Govmint has ridiculously high prices on their coins; there are many less expensive and good quality dealers out there.
  6. Pacecar

    Pacecar Well-Known Member

  7. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    the advice about being more careful where you purchase the coins is spot on and you've be well-served to listen to it.

    The Proof Coins are better collected than the MS coins by FAR and because of their much smaller mintages, wioll likely command a premium as long as the series remains popular.

    But NEITHER the MS nor the PF are worth buying certified. The fact that they're certified does nothing to appreciatively boost the value and in the case of the MS coin, that usually means that the coin is worth melt as an MS-69 and melt value as an MS-70. NO PREMIUM!!!

    IMHO One should NEVER buy certified bullion for anything over the price you'd pay for the same coin raw.
  8. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    My problems with collecting ASEs are:
    1. The mintages are large, many millions
    2. They don't circulate so they're all in MS condition
    3. They're made as bullion but sold as collectible so they're overpriced
  9. Prime Mover

    Prime Mover Active Member

    Thanks for the info, I understand now.

    I saw their pricing and yeah, seems very high, I have found others of the same cheaper elsewhere.

    I agree I'd probably go with the -69, because I'm more into lower-premium bullion collecting as far as ASE's go. I would like to get a few for my kids as I'm getting them into collecting so it's a nice entry point.

    Thanks again.
  10. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage

    You got that right, don't waste your money on their high mark up. Save your money to buy something else. :thumb:
  11. Prime Mover

    Prime Mover Active Member

    I used them for an easy example, I've found plenty of graded cheaper elsewhere.

    Aside from a couple specific dates I want to get for personal reasons, I am probably just going to get mint tubes, and pick a few to grade if I want to do it that way. Most of the ASE's I have so far are just normal bullion rounds, but I do want to add a few to the collection just because.
  12. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    I STILL wouldn't slab them. Why lay an additional $25 grading fee on the price of your coin when it will improve the value by $0? I have NEVER seen a SAE that was graded lower than MS-68, so why bother? It's a waste of money if you ask me.
  13. Prime Mover

    Prime Mover Active Member

    Because it's tidy, and neat, and I like the look of the coin in the slab.

    Because I can give one to each of my daughters and they can put it on their dresser, and easily see a nicely presented coin from the year they were born. The year they "graduated" kindergarten. The year she made black belt. And so on.

    Because I don't care whether it adds value to that particular coin, I'm not buying it for it's face or intrinsic metal value.

    I fully understand your view of the slab not bringing value to a bullion coin. I'm not planning on having all my bullion be graded or slabbed, for that I buy bars and rounds which I could care less about their fineness or quality of production.
  14. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    But that is where you are completely wrong. There are actually 3 types of ASEs: BU collector, Proof collector, and bullion. The first two types are designed and intended to be collector pieces.

    However, the bullion does sell for a bit of a premium over spot.

    These 3 are different coins.
  15. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    You can buy the coins already slabbed for a very small premium over their raw costs if you find the right vendor.
  16. Prime Mover

    Prime Mover Active Member

    Yeah, that's the tricky part I'm finding... Need more hours in the day. :)
  17. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    eBay is a good place to start...and local coin shops. I think you will also find the difference between a 69 and a 70 is basically indistinguishable. I would recommend purchasing coins graded 69 rather than 70 if you insist on buying slabbed coins.
  18. Prime Mover

    Prime Mover Active Member

    Thanks for the advice. I've seen many a post about the differences (or lack thereof) between a 69 and 70, and to my very untrained eye I can guarantee I won't be able to see it. 69 grading is plenty fine.
  19. green18

    green18 Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Mike, there are folks out there who do like to collect these things 'slabbed'. OP presents some very valid reasons for doing so. I agree with you on the reason(s) for not holdering these pieces but folks just collect what they like to collect. Think of it as another genre. Me? I collect 'em raw and enjoy doing so, but that's just my collecting forte. Oh, one thing more.....I seem to remember somebody here reporting that one of the eagles they submitted from the 25th anniversary set came back with an '67 designation. Now there's a conditional rarity. Could be worth millions.........:)
  20. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    LOL, good point, Ken.

    I completely agree that people like what they like. I was merely advocating my position that the coins are as good raw as slabbed. I also agree with the OP when he says that he can find them for close to spot and in that they have a nice holder and are pretty well protected.

    I just didn't want anyone to think that they should pay any real premium for slabbed bullion coins. That's one of the biggest holes that newbie collectors fall into.

    In the end when push comes to shove, collect what you like. Enjoy the hobby regardless of the cost. What one invests in his(her) own happiness is a small price.
  21. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    The difference is very minimal. I think it is easiest to see with proof coins. If you take a proof graded 69...very closely inspect the frosted devices. Often times, a very small spot (even as small as a pinpoint) will not be frosted. This is enough to make the coin a 69. So, for me...69 is good enough too.
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