Are ASEs legal tender?

The difference is...the machine shop worker is stealing and the bank teller isn't. I worked as a bank teller for a while and I was an account holder at that bank. Because of my knowledge of coins and currency, I kept my eyes open for things of value or interest to me and set them aside. Once I had a nice little pile of things, I would transfer it to my neighbor teller (because I couldn't withdrawal it from my own account) and on a break I would go his window and make a withdrawal from my account in that amount of my pile (usually $20 worth of star notes and a few coins)...and he would give me the notes and coins I had transferred him earlier. I paid face value for it...does the machine worker when he takes home his scrap?

 

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Would be tough to get a jury verdict on that one.

 

Or it just might be volitile because it is a small physical market in a world of big money, big investors, big miners, big industrial users, etc...

 

This is the key flaw in his example. The teller isn't simply taking coins home with them at the end of their shift, they are exchanging $X of the bank's money for $X of theirs.

If the guy working in the machine shop was willing to reimburse the shop for the value of the scrap, they'd probably let him take it home. It's possible of course that they wouldn't, but then again, some banks don't let their tellers swap money around.

 

As for the legal tender discussion, this has been covered in several other threads already. Here's the clif notes version:

Legal US tender can be used for all debts, public and private, and here's how it works:

Assume you owe someone a debt that is measured in dollars. For the purposes of this example, let's assume you make an offer to pay your debt in full using cash, this constitutes a legal and valid offer of payment. The person on the other end of the transaction has a choice at this point: They can accept your payment, or they can refuse it. If they accept it, all is well. Should they refuse it, they have refused a legal and valid offer of payment and the proverbial ball is now in their court if they still want their money.

I would argue that once they refuse a legal offer of payment, they should not be able to charge you any late fees if you are late with your payment. I further believe that they should not be able to charge you any interest on your debt as it would have been paid had they accepted your payment. There are still others out there that believe your debt is null and void at that point because they refused a legal offer of repayment. I don't believe your entire debt should be "null and void", but I do firmly believe the ball is in their court to recover their money. If they want to be repaid after refusing such an offer of repayment, then depending on how much I like or dislike them, I might force them take me to court to settle the matter. Because they could play that game to their advantage for as long as they want: I come with a $100 bill to settle my $100 debt and they turn me away. I return the following day and attempt to settle my $100 debt, plus a late fee and another day's interest with $20s and they turn me away again. This time I ask what methods are acceptable and they say "Quarters!". I return the next day with quarters to pay my original debt plus late fees and two more days interest and they say "No, only pre-1965 quarters!" (If, as many here believe, private businesses do not have to accept your offer and can demand payment in any form without repercussions, why not pre-1965 quarters?") This is also why I think refusing a legal and valid offer of payment must have consequences. If you believe otherwise, try doing what I just outlined and see what the judge says about it when someone takes you to court, or when you have to take the matter to court to recover your money.

 

AGE's are legal tender also. I would be willing to sell you some nice stuff,and gladly accept payment in AGE's or ASE's at their face value.

 

well first off i was the one to deal with that customer i would have told them directly that they are worth more than a dollar. i did mention it was only a handful and this is when silver was $8/oz. secondly the teller that did take them had no idea what they were. it was in a night time deposit from a business. she merely showed them to me when i got back from break because she knew i liked coins. honestly if i would have known the customer who deposited them i would have called them so they could come back and get them. so you have no basis to even try to lecture me on this subject. no one "knowingly" did anything wrong. yes there are others who do but i take offense to your response without you knowing me. i had customers bring me $500 and $1000 bills all the time. i always let them know they are worth way more then face value. most of my customers were older so they didn't know. so next time you wanna spout off about someone or something you know nothing about how about PM'ing someone. :thumb:

 

It does not get any clearer to this. Shop keepers do not have to accept large bank notes if no previous debt exists. But now if you go down to city hall to pay you taxes, they have to accept your Benjies.....


Legal tender is a medium of payment allowed by law or recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation.[SUP][1][/SUP] Paper currency and coins are common forms of legal tender in many countries. The origin of the term "legal tender" is from Middle English tendren, French tendre (verb form), meaning to offer. The Latin root is tendere (to stretch out), and the sense of tender as an offer is related to the etymology of the English word extend (to hold outward).[SUP][2][/SUP] The noun form of a tender as an offering is a back-formation of the noun from the verb.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Legal tender is variously defined in different jurisdictions. Formally, it is anything which when offered in payment extinguishes the debt. Thus, personal cheques, credit cards, debit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender. The law does not relieve the debt obligation until payment is accepted. Coins and banknotes are usually defined as legal tender. Some jurisdictions may forbid or restrict payment made other than by legal tender. For example, such a law might outlaw the use of foreign coins and bank notes or require a license to perform financial transactions in a foreign currency.
In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote. Shopkeepers may reject large banknotes: this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat. However, restaurants that do not collect payment until after a meal is served must accept that legal tender for the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.
The right, in many jurisdictions, of a trader to refuse to do business with any person means a purchaser may not insist on making a purchase and so declaring a legal tender in law, as anything other than an offered payment for debts already incurred would not be effective.

 

So, those city halls that have signs posted that communicate a payment policy where some demoninations are not accepted are illegal?

Or should one view such signs as suggestions? i.e. They would rather you not pay using pennies or $100 bills, but if you insist, they would be obligated to accept your payment?

 

That is the way I understand it. I am not doubting you, that you have seen such signs at city hall, but I have not. In my younger days, seems I had to settle quite a few um "debts" to the township and they were always happy to see Mr. Franklin.

 

Federal "Legal Tender" Statute explained in simple terms

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.

 

Even the IRS has some "issues" accepting cash. From their "Payment Options" page:

 

just curious considering these arguments.i bought a ww1 gold bond book at an auction so should i expect to receive a reinbursement with all interrest due should i deside to trade them in.they should bring a tidy sum if so and they are goverment issue as you know so they should be legal tender too right.

 

My understanding is all gold based holdings like this became void in 1933. I could be mistaken though.

 

Your correct , just like you can't redeem Silver certificates for silver anymore , they both had certain dates you had to redeem them by or you were out of luck .

 

I don't get it.

I was merely stating that we already know the answer to this riddle. I never said I wasn't, once again, amused by you people.

 

business can refuse to serve you, so can't they refuse your legal tender by Just refusing the transaction all together and not specifying why?

 

yes unless they already served you. Such as if you go to a restaurant and they seat and serve you then they can either accept the legal tender or forgive the debt (check). If you go to a store and try to buy a bottle of soda and a bag of chips they can refuse your legal tender because you don't have a debt yet.

 

I'm not familiar with the gold bonds, but savings bonds do not expire. They do however, stop earning interest once they reach maturity. So it wouldn't be a good idea to sit on them for 80 years hoping for them to be worth a fortune...