Anyone Ready for the New Fed Coin?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by fretboard, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    You just proved my point as that statement is absolutely false. You are not obligated in anyway to have to accept something and are free to state the methods of payments you will take. Legal tender at the base of it just means its a legitimate offer
     
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  3. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Again you are incorrect. Legal tender means if the buyer wishes to pay a US seller in US currency bearing those words, then the seller must accept payment in that form.

    Sellers can refuse credit cards, checks, money orders, and various other mediums or stores of value, but may not refuse legal tender cash.
     
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  4. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Completely false.

    Paragraph below cited here:
    https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/currency/pages/legal-tender.aspx

    "This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy."

    There's also
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_tender

    Then also cited below
    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

    "There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise."



    I mean I guess if you think you know better than the laws sure, shrug
     
    imrich likes this.
  5. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    FED CON

    Catchy name no? :D
     
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  6. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    I will pass..LOL
     
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  7. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator


    A mere technicality. Not that I consider Wikipedia a most reliable source, but in this case it aligns well with my understanding . . .

    “Legal tender is a form of money that courts of law are required to recognize as satisfactory payment for any monetary debt.[1]Each jurisdiction determines what is legal tender, but essentially it is anything which when offered ("tendered") in payment of a debt extinguishes the debt. There is no obligation on the creditor to accept the tendered payment, but the act of tendering the payment in legal tender discharges the debt.”​

    In a nutshell, if I take my wife out for a nice dinner, offer to pay afterward with cash, and the cash is is refused by the restaurant, I may leave without paying in another form, and not be held to account for my debt.

    Wierd, but that is the law, as I understand it.
     
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  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Um, Wikipedia over actual legitimate sources? You can't possibly be serious with that

    That's false

    Did you even read the real information that are legitimate federal sources? Theres even a law school one in the middle.
     
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    You mean, like they do right now with physical cash, via inflation?
     
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  10. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator


    Following is from your Cornell citing (I’ve highlighted the operative language in red) . . .

    legal tender
    Primary tabs
    Legal Tender refers to all U.S. coins and currency that issued by the government. U.S. Cash dollars are also a valid form of legal tender. Nonetheless, federal statutes do not require a seller to accept cash as a form of legal tender for payment of goods or services that were rendered. Thus, businesses may establish their own policies regarding whether they will accept cash as legal tender. Legal Tender also includes Federal Reserve notes as well as notes from Federal Reserve Banks and national banking associations for purposes of settling public and private debts, duties, dues, and taxes. Legal tender generally does not include personal checks, credit cards, or other general forms of noncash payments. In some instances, foreign currency may be accepted as legal tender. Additionally, legal tender can only be used in regard to paying off debts.

    The purpose and function of legal tender is for courts to determine whether it is a satisfactory payment for monetary debt. Each jurisdiction can define its specific limits of what is legal tender but generally it is anything when offered (tendered) and accepted in order to pay off the debt. Although the original creditor who is owed money is not necessarily obligated to accept the tendered payment, the specific act of tendering the payment absolves the debt.
     
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  11. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    From the links you posted above...

    "Additionally, legal tender can only be used in regard to paying off debts. The purpose and function of legal tender is for courts to determine whether it is a satisfactory payment for monetary debt. Each jurisdiction can define its specific limits of what is legal tender but generally it is anything when offered (tendered) and accepted in order to pay off the debt. Although the original creditor who is owed money is not necessarily obligated to accept the tendered payment, the specific act of tendering the payment absolves the debt."

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_tender


    "This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor."

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

    Keep in mind that checks, credit cards, etc are NOT legal tender. They represent a "promise" of legal tender, but are not, in themselves, legal tender. Limits on legal tender are things like not allowing debts greater than $5 to be paid with pennies.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  12. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    So sad, just so sad. My fault should have known better good luck and if people want to say things that get people arrested thats on their conscious
     
  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I personally own the Fed Dollar. The technical name is Federal Reserve Note.
     
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  14. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    In regards to the cash/legal tender discussion, Massachusetts law requires businesses to accept cash. In some (most?) other states, businesses can state that they do not accept cash.

    DFF43F74-FC40-4829-89F8-F9E29966957E.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  15. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    My understanding is that businesses can refuse cash payment as a precondition to a transaction. However, once a transaction is initiated without precondition, they must accept legal tender (within established limits) as payment. If legal tender payment is offered and refused, the debt is considered "legally satisfied".
     
  16. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . .

    Cryptocurrencies issued by governmental agencies are way more insidious that you could imagine. With cryptocurrency, the issuer has the power to determine (allow / disallow) purchases they deem "inconsistent" with the general good.

    Say, you are overweight and your health is creating a "drain" on the healthcare system. You want to go out and buy a fat and sugar laden mocha grande. Well sir, that is not consistent with the general good of the nation, you'll be denied, but you can take your coffee black . . . . .

    Think Revelation, the anti-christ, the beast, the ability to control what you buy or sell. Apostle John saw it all and wrote it down over 2,000 years ago.

    Z
     
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  17. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    Haven't you heard? ...the Bible is a conspiracy theory. ;)
     
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  18. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . .


    Just reporting what I have read. That report has been out there for longer than I've been around . . . . .

    Z
     
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  19. QuintupleSovereign

    QuintupleSovereign Well-Known Member

    Without the subterfuge!
     
  20. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Smooth one! :D I also have some! :cigar:
     
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  21. CygnusCC

    CygnusCC Roping the Learns Supporter

    My suspicion is that we'll see this fed electronic dollar used to replace Automated Clearing House (ACH) transfers for business-to-business and bank-to-bank transactions. ACH is slow and clunky taking days to process, fed e-dollars (if implemented like some of the more modern blockchains) would take just minutes or less to complete. And likely with less cost, to boot.

    It'll probably be years or decades before the average citizen or small business uses it (and even then only as much as we use ACH today).

    Maybe replacing wire transfers as well. Or at least making them obsolete if an ACH can occur as quickly.

    My $.02
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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