Anyone canceling their order of 75th anniversary sets?

If your order won't ship until October, it can't get the Early Release label.

 

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this may be a bit far afield but what about the $5 bill in the "Making American History Coin & Currency Set"? someone here must know a bit about paper money- here is what they say about it:

"
To commemorate the Bureau of Engraving and Printing’s 150th anniversary, marked on August 29, 2012, each Series 2009 $5 note will have a unique serial number that begins with "150" and bears the signature of Rosie Rios, the 43rd and current Treasurer of the United States.
"
It sounds like a sort of limited edition type of thing- will that be anything special or just junque.

 

Good luck with that theory... The very idea of "minted to demand" suggests that all 251,000+ demanded them will thus not cancel their orders. It's highly improbable that the number of potential cancelations would reduce the number of units reportedly sold and orders fulfilled to make much impact on mintage. Your dreams of high value modern coinage will have to wait. And these will remain far from 'low mintage' coins, particularly since they'll be selling the 2012-s in the Making American History set, increasing that coins figures.

People are enamored with the concept of the RP coin based on the results of the 2006 coins but the quality will not be there in the 2012 RP coins, just as it wasn't there in the 2011 coin. The 'frosted' finishes on these coins, since around 2009/10 of any proof coins has become a crude laser etch application that produces flat looking coins lacking detail. The quality of the 2006 is much better in this way and will always be superior in comparison to these latest coins.

It's unfortunate that collectors will not look at the principal of the matter and put aside their flipping mind-set for a moment, or their justification of 'just buying one for the collection', to critically look at the Mint's handling of this release and those issues they've created for collectors in recent years' when issuing new products. This treatment of a loyal collecting customer base is astonishing, especially to a group of custoemrs who are keenly aware of these products and disect every nuance of matters surrounding them.

If the US Mint was an eBay seller doing something akin to this, this forum would be a mob of angry torch and pitchfork wielding vigilantes crying foul, filing SNADs and debating about what kind of negative feedback to leave. Instead simple marketing has collectors herded like sheep, and they bleat the merits of coin collecting and eat up the legacy concept the Mint has everyone sold on to continue buying these things. The quality of what they are selling, how they are selling things is a travesty to this hobby. I know this concept challenges many members' thinking and many of you don't like to hear my unpopular thoughts, but if you can't step back for a moment and see the greater issues and potential trajectory of what is principally wrong with this, then complacency runs very deep in this hobby. Blunt as that may read, it is one of the clearest ways to put it out there to get your attention.

I've certainly had enough of this nonsense and lack of transparency from the Mint. On July 22nd I canceled my order which was for two sets of the ASE 75th Anniversary coins. There are so many other things that I can easily apply the funds to in collecting and remaining active in this hobby without giving the funds approvingly to the Mint any further.

Statequarterguy has been a voice of reason in this thread. Voting with your wallets is the only way to send a message to the Mint, and I second the idea to send a message to your state elected officials that they send your message to Washington about the Mint's handling of this aspect of their operations. The ANA likes to boast that they are a Congressionally chartered institution and any ANA members may seek unity in the membership of that institution as an authority that can bend the ear of members of Congress who can effect changes at the Mint if that's what the hobby is capable of motivating itself to do. I don't expect much will come of it becuase honestly, people have too little faith in how a democracy is built to operate, are too intent on making money off their coins and too scared they will miss a coin if they don't buy into the latest new coin.

I also collect Paper Money, mostly FRNs of which this is a kind of note being sold in the Making American History set.

This note is only limited in that they set aside a pile of $5 notes that would have otherwise been just as easily released into circulation. Instead, the B.E.P. which is celebrating it's 150th anniversary, created and held aside notes with the serial numbers starting with 150. It's just more marketing of collectibles. They are sold to collectors at vastly overpriced retail prices. The moneyfactory.gov site regularly sells similar notes in various denominations annually to paper money collectors, and each year you can buy notes with SNs starting with the given year, direct from them. Perhaps there are not many of them sold each year and only so many serials numbers can be printed, but then it's just paper collectors who want these things buying these things. Need I remind the typical haters of fiat currency that that is also what these notes are... Also, there's nothing special about the signature that appears on all of these Series of notes. Her signature is on all the current Series denominations of notes and will remain so until she is replaced with another person in that role. Something that can be monitored for notes is 'printage' or how many notes were printed. Those with low printages tend to be harder to obtain and become the keys of a series. Certain Federal Reserve districts have more notes printed for it than others, but these are manufactured as collectibles and while lower, they are not really as rare as when such low printage comes about organically as a matter of commerce, and later collected when taken notice by collectors.

If you think "it sounds like a sort of limited edition type thing" then you are conforming perfectly to marketing intentions and you are softening to accepting the idea that that's what it is, which is what they want you to believe in and to buy into, just like they sold you on the specialness of the ASE 75th Anniversary set.

 

I for one cared about it, as this set was about celebrating the 75th anniversary of the current operations of the S.F. Mint facility even though the "San Francisco Mint" goes back to the 1850s and 75 seems arbitrary to selling coins in today's heavily marketed consumerist coin collecting hobby. The RP coins suffer grossly in quality as noted above. The very fact that the Mint has effectively allowed customers to believe the 75th anniversary set was a unique offering IS something to yell about!

 

the minimum price for common commemorative $5.00 bill sold for $29.95 at the bureau of engraving and printing. this important event one bill only might cause more if it sell directly from BEP. now it is a set and joint hand with u.s. mint. it should consider a bargain. this is my analysis. i might be wrong.

 

Why do I feel like I just got my brains beat in?

You're right Chris, and I agree with most of what you convey. That said.......I still ain't cancelling.

 

As I already stated, given the current mindset of collectors in response to the way the Mint controls collectors and their spending, I don't expect most in this hobby will have the discipline to stand up to the Mint and cancel current orders or resist future purchases in order to effect change.

Sometimes a few people have to stand up and point out the obvious and point out the insanity of repeating the same process over and over for those unwilling or unable to step back and reconsider what it is that is really going on here. All I'm saying is take a moment to reassess the principal of the matter. It's not about one's reasons and passion for collecting nor one's ability to make a little profit in return for reselling such items. It's much more about how the Mint and marketing have taken hold of collectors and its long term undermining effect.

I know none of this is popular to say and I know many here don't like to hear it, particularly from me, but it's not something lost on some of us who point out these things for others to at least consider. So thanks for reading.

 

I am far from being a U. S. Mint provincialist, but I will not cancel my order for this set. I want it because I like it.

The U. S. Mint is definitely not the only game in town. There is a great big world out there with a number of mints that produce some pretty outstanding coins.

I have found if I purchase what I really like and for what it is, without any real concern for mintage, future value and all of the other sideshow periphery, I am seldom disappointed and have very little internal drama to process.

U. S. Mint products comprise maybe 20% of my silver coin collection. As Krispy said, as long as their products continue to be purchased, the U. S. Mint is unlikely to change its current MO.

It is just surprising to me that in 2012, there are still so many people who have resisted adopting a global perspective to things in general.

 

I wonder why we are even talking about a collector issue in the "Bullion" forum?
This coin set is not bullion. Not any way, shape, or form could buying this silver coin set be considered bullion as it is priced FAR and away above it's value in metal. If you want bullion, buy a business strike at, or near, spot. If you want a pretty coin, collect coins.

 

I am just a grouchy old coot.

Hey, if someone likes the coins, no matter what coins, good for you. I mean it, I am happy whenever any collector gets to buy what they love. Mint politics be damned, if someone likes something, likes the price, then its a great purchase.

 

Dealing with the US Mint in recent years has not really been such a black-and-white issue for everyone out there in the coin collecting realm, which is why some of us differ and express as much-- Yes, at times, at length.

I personally like (even still like) the coin, despite my dislike for the retail asking price, which I personally find egregiously inflated. Regardless of my interests in this coin and this series (which I can afford to buy despite the high asking price), I dislike the way the Mint has been going about it's product releases. Their repetitive problems, to put it simply, is enough now for me to disown this particular coin and break my collection with the numismatic eagle product offerings, as well as my, so-called, 'brand loyalty' to the Mint. It's just as much a personal choice as is ignoring the Mint's flaws and continuing to buy into their products.

 

I see your point but because it is a part of the "Eagle" series......

 

The best this "part of the "Eagle" series" is likely to pay you back in ACTUAL Bullion Investing terms is for it's intrinsic value, something a collector would not part with these numismatic products for. This has been underscored with a little tongue in cheek offer PeacePeople makes to people to buy them for a little over spot. Differentiating the two, numismatic from bullion, will help you avoid the having to invent reasons to defend discussing it in this area of the forum amongst the other readers commenting here who question why you post here, where we see collectors continuing to defend paying a numismatic premeium to buy bullion often justified as 'just buy one for the collection'. Something tells me that when folks posts "investing in coins" ideas in the Coin Chat and US Coins sections they are sure to get blasted by 'collectors' for how bad and risky an idea that it is to do that. Certainly some people collect bullion but that is not what's being discussed. Collecting isn't investing.

 

I don't see the problem with having this be part of the Bullion Investing forum. In my opinion, just because the perceived value is higher than the spot price, doesn't mean that they can't be considered bullion. Business strike silver pandas from the 80's and early 90's can sell for hundreds of dollars per ounce, but I still consider those to be bullion coins. As a bullion collector/investor, I bought this set because I liked it, and I felt it had potential to increase in value. I'm not going to flip it, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't care what the secondary market value was.

 

The reason i don't post threads about Silver Eagles in the general U.S. coin forum is because the threads would attract the trolls that think modern silver Eagles are not a legitimate numismatic collectible and would turn the thread into a debate about that subject.

 

I've started a few there and encountered no problems.......

 

I don't care what anyone says, I am not gonna cancel my orders. I'm gonna keep my sets and I'll probably sell one at Xmas time.

 

There's nothing wrong with making a collection of bullion pieces, such as those business strike Pandas you referred to, but that is collecting, not investing. There is a difference and this forum subsection was created to separate the two activities so as not to co-mingle the two easily confused discussions. Many collectors will object to collecting bullion the same way they skewer people who have bullion coins graded or pay premiums for bullion as if it were a collectible... Some folks are short sited, superficial and don't realize not everyone collects the same things in the same way as defined by the majority. The US Mint is doing a bang-up job of running the collectible Eagle program into the ground with repeated novelty marketing attempts, and it's been 25 years now with the same designs they've about run out of ideas for selling them to collectors. Coin legislation states the designs can change after that length of time. At some point the design may change or the Eagle coin program could be ended. Were either of those two things to happen, many of the bullion Eagle coins, particularly those which have been graded or never opened from tubes and boxes, will take on a numismatic appeal that previously was neglected by the collecting community. Many are swift to shoot down this notion, but there is a difference in most collectors minds between junk silver business strike coinage bearing precious metals composition and numismatic premiums placed on collectible versions of those same coins that remain in high grades.

The problem with having this thread topic be a part of the Bullion Investing forum is that many coin collectors are not able to separate the discussion and these threads migrate into investment forum threads, but are dominated by matters the realm of numismatic discourse. That means they discuss subjective premiums, collecting goals and things which have nothing to do with actual bullion investment, like market trends, history of metals, investment strategies, market directions and factors impacting daily moves in spot prices, as well as political (where its alloweed per forum rules) and economic concerns, mining activity and supply for various investing and industrial needs, etc. I would only suggest that if we had an inside link to what the US Mint was paying for the raw materials from it's blanks suppliers might we be discussing these collectible coins under an umbrella related to bullion topics. But that's an unknown and hasn't been the subject of threads in the Bullion Investing forum.

As many are buying one or two sets and claiming they are not flipping, nor going to resell their collectible coins, they certainly are not investing in bullion. Buying and holding PMs indefinitely isn't a strategy being discussed here, and it tends to be one that bullion investors (although not always the case with "stackers") which is often cautioned against among investors. That is, people who invest in PMs usually know their buy / sell parameters and have no attachment to the objects as collectible. It also becomes readily clear that these are collector threads rather than investment threads because collectors state are not willing to part with their coins for anything near spot, and probably very little less, if at all below, retail price.

That's the best you can come up with to justify talking about numismatic collectibles in the bullion investing forum???

There's nothing in a public forum that is stopping the same opposing viewpoints that you fear dealing with, from accessing any other thread of a similar topic, no matter where you post it. The only people commenting in these threads are the same people who buy and collect these coins and who have typically always chimed in to maintain the discussion on these topics. I think you can deal with a rouge comment or two that differs from your own and take numismatics back to Coin Chat or US Coins sub sections... just like Ken said:

La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la!!!

 

We all got fooled by the US Mint. I probably won't cancel unless the prices are too low to flip.

I think the thread belongs in this category but the name of the category should be changed.

 

Check your cancel boxes. All mine are gone now. TC