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<p>[QUOTE="Prime Mover, post: 2662855, member: 38783"]I appreciate the reading sessions, I hadn't really done much of that on the quantum computing front before.</p><p><br /></p><p>In the end, quantum computing changes little, and still refers back to the point about lack of understanding of the underlying engine that drives the Bitcoin vehicle, and lack of understanding of the impact of a 51% attack and even were it possible to happen how easily it can be mitigated should there be one. </p><p><br /></p><p>It also highlights the fact that you cannot take a myopic look at the Bitcoin ecosystem and base your decision to invest in something on only that view, especially if you're working on what could happen much later, not what is actually happening and capable of right now, when you're trying to realize your gains. As is true of traditional investing, if you do not examine the whole picture of any form of investments you will lose.</p><p><br /></p><p>I'll leave the interested parties to research on their own, but instead of me pasting a few pages long worth of quotes, here's a few links which make reasonable debunking of your theory of being able to hijack Bitcoin by computing that does not yet exist, but even should it ever.</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/6062/what-effects-would-a-scalable-quantum-computer-have-on-bitcoin" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/6062/what-effects-would-a-scalable-quantum-computer-have-on-bitcoin" rel="nofollow">http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/6062/what-effects-would-a-scalable-quantum-computer-have-on-bitcoin</a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-ready-quantum-computing/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-ready-quantum-computing/" rel="nofollow">https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-ready-quantum-computing/</a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Quantum_computing_and_Bitcoin" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Quantum_computing_and_Bitcoin" rel="nofollow">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Quantum_computing_and_Bitcoin</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Furthermore, the troj... err worm theory (not only ASICs) is not plausible, no matter the type of computing power you think you can wrangle under it.</p><p><br /></p><p>Typically, compromising a system has been/is used to further 1 of 3 general goals - 1) band computers together to perform attacks on websites for service interruption requiring ransom payment to stop, 2) discovering information and sending it back to the "mothership" for whatever purpose, or 3) encrypting files and holding it for ransom (ironically usually paid in Bitcoin).</p><p><br /></p><p>A twist on the first type above is what I believe you're trying to get at, which can be used for 2 purposes - 1) to try to 51% the network (network effecting) or 2) redirect other users' hash power to an account of the hacker's own so they can "mine for free" (user affecting).</p><p><br /></p><p>I am aware of at least one attempt in the past at #2, which worked briefly while CPU power was still viable in mass millions of numbers (sometime in 2013/14).</p><p><br /></p><p>The main reason #1 would not work - even IF (and it's an implausible if) so many devices were compromised and a switch was turned on where they all came online and started hashing at once, the other network operators would notice the huge uptick in hash and peer-ban the mining pool node servers that start relaying any blocks from those machines.</p><p><br /></p><p>Furthermore, IF (and an exponentially larger IF) any blocks were released from the mining pool(s) the rogue nodes were using, the blocks would die on the vine so to speak.</p><p><br /></p><p>To understand why, you need to understand the blockchain and how blocks get relayed, confirmed, and accepted. There's a reason it's called a chain. Each block builds on the previous. But, that also means each block could turn the branch of the chain in a different direction, thus "forking" the chain along a different path. Each block needs confirmations from the other nodes in the chain that it's valid, and this is why you look at the 51%, as it takes a 51% majority of the voting shares (mining pools) to fully confirm each block (6 times), accept it and build the next block in the chain upon that one.</p><p><br /></p><p>However, that's not the end of the story. Even if a few blocks make it into the chain from rogue pools, when noticed by the other operators and the rogue pools are banned, they will drop in hash rate quickly, fall below 51%, and then the miners of the other pools, who were still working on the old chain who now have 51% majority back, will start building new blocks back on the original chain. In a short period of time, the rogue blocks will become orphaned as the voting share for those blocks has dried up, and the original chain wins, the takeover attempt fades away.</p><p><br /></p><p>Anywho, now to try to get back to somewhat on topic, i will post more thoughts next, so they don't get caught up in this debate (I can start a new one, yay! <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> )[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Prime Mover, post: 2662855, member: 38783"]I appreciate the reading sessions, I hadn't really done much of that on the quantum computing front before. In the end, quantum computing changes little, and still refers back to the point about lack of understanding of the underlying engine that drives the Bitcoin vehicle, and lack of understanding of the impact of a 51% attack and even were it possible to happen how easily it can be mitigated should there be one. It also highlights the fact that you cannot take a myopic look at the Bitcoin ecosystem and base your decision to invest in something on only that view, especially if you're working on what could happen much later, not what is actually happening and capable of right now, when you're trying to realize your gains. As is true of traditional investing, if you do not examine the whole picture of any form of investments you will lose. I'll leave the interested parties to research on their own, but instead of me pasting a few pages long worth of quotes, here's a few links which make reasonable debunking of your theory of being able to hijack Bitcoin by computing that does not yet exist, but even should it ever. [url]http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/6062/what-effects-would-a-scalable-quantum-computer-have-on-bitcoin[/url] [url]https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-ready-quantum-computing/[/url] [url]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Quantum_computing_and_Bitcoin[/url] Furthermore, the troj... err worm theory (not only ASICs) is not plausible, no matter the type of computing power you think you can wrangle under it. Typically, compromising a system has been/is used to further 1 of 3 general goals - 1) band computers together to perform attacks on websites for service interruption requiring ransom payment to stop, 2) discovering information and sending it back to the "mothership" for whatever purpose, or 3) encrypting files and holding it for ransom (ironically usually paid in Bitcoin). A twist on the first type above is what I believe you're trying to get at, which can be used for 2 purposes - 1) to try to 51% the network (network effecting) or 2) redirect other users' hash power to an account of the hacker's own so they can "mine for free" (user affecting). I am aware of at least one attempt in the past at #2, which worked briefly while CPU power was still viable in mass millions of numbers (sometime in 2013/14). The main reason #1 would not work - even IF (and it's an implausible if) so many devices were compromised and a switch was turned on where they all came online and started hashing at once, the other network operators would notice the huge uptick in hash and peer-ban the mining pool node servers that start relaying any blocks from those machines. Furthermore, IF (and an exponentially larger IF) any blocks were released from the mining pool(s) the rogue nodes were using, the blocks would die on the vine so to speak. To understand why, you need to understand the blockchain and how blocks get relayed, confirmed, and accepted. There's a reason it's called a chain. Each block builds on the previous. But, that also means each block could turn the branch of the chain in a different direction, thus "forking" the chain along a different path. Each block needs confirmations from the other nodes in the chain that it's valid, and this is why you look at the 51%, as it takes a 51% majority of the voting shares (mining pools) to fully confirm each block (6 times), accept it and build the next block in the chain upon that one. However, that's not the end of the story. Even if a few blocks make it into the chain from rogue pools, when noticed by the other operators and the rogue pools are banned, they will drop in hash rate quickly, fall below 51%, and then the miners of the other pools, who were still working on the old chain who now have 51% majority back, will start building new blocks back on the original chain. In a short period of time, the rogue blocks will become orphaned as the voting share for those blocks has dried up, and the original chain wins, the takeover attempt fades away. Anywho, now to try to get back to somewhat on topic, i will post more thoughts next, so they don't get caught up in this debate (I can start a new one, yay! :) )[/QUOTE]
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