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<p>[QUOTE="Prime Mover, post: 2661951, member: 38783"]I will post some more eye candy shortly.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Based upon what you've stated, you probably are best not attempting to invest in it, as it does not seem you understand it as well as you may think.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>This, is patently untrue.</p><p><br /></p><p>BitCoin's value is NOT derived from being simply a currency service, its value is given because of everything else surrounding it being used as a currency service.. It is all those extras of security, relative anonymity, transactional speed, low transaction fees, lack of governmental control, etc that make Bitcoin an attractive alternative means of monetary transfer. Without the technology behind Bitcoin, it is no more valuable than sea shells, salt, rocks and beads, or anything else in history that has been used as a "currency".</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Not understanding the utility of a physical representation of Bitcoin equates to not understanding Bitcoin.</p><p><br /></p><p>A physical bitcoin ENHANCES the utility of Bitcoin, by giving it options that allows it to be used outside the constraints of the digital world, furthering its ability to be used as a more acceptable form of currency, not less.</p><p><br /></p><p>A physical Bitcoin cannot be hacked by an outside party, providing penultimate security for your holdings.</p><p><br /></p><p>Since a Bitcoin can be split into up to 1,000,000 single bits, you can load up a physical bitcoin with as many bits as you want. I could put 0.1 Bitcoin onto a physical round, walk into a store, and if something cost 0.1BTC, I could hand over my physical bitcoin to the cashier and walk out, letting them have the option later to either redeem that 0.1BTC to their account, or to give that 0.1BTC to someone as change, and they can then take it elsewhere and further the process. I don't have to go all geek with electronics, and no one has to be waiting for the first block confirmations to make sure the payment would be valid.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Please tell me where you can walk into a retailer and plunk down a chunk of silver, or gold, and walk out with goods? Or, walk in with your digital device and ask for someone's bitcoin address and a live conversion rate for BTC -> Fiat, pay them, tell them the TX id, wait 10 minutes or so for the first chain confirmation, and then leave? Bitcoin can easily be transacted online in many places as it was designed for that, but there are so few B&M retailers that accept it, it has zero current practicality as a mainstream currency.</p><p><br /></p><p>Bitcoin currently has more in line with PM's as a store of wealth than any realistic use as an everyday instrument of commerce.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>No one should invest in any one thing over any other one thing. As with everything else, investments should be diversified so you're cushioned against any severe losses in any single area. Investing 101.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Not an entirely true statement.</p><p><br /></p><p>As you admonished another user - "Does it really make since to pick an anomalitic high point as your baseline?"</p><p><br /></p><p>Bitcoin has been around for a short ~8 years, with no real monetary value until roughly 2013. It took a meteoric rise to a high of over $1k within 12 months, then the aforementioned Silk Road and Mt. Gox fiascos brought it crashing down, seeing lows of the mid-$100's in 2015, and a slow recover to where it is now over the past 2 years. I would say that it has seen its anomalitic high point once, when it was still in its absolute infancy, adjusted/corrected, and now has found stability. We will see, only time will tell, but either way I do not think you can form any real conclusion on what its real trends are because there has not been enough time in its existence to prove anything.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Are you continuing the falsities on purpose, or are you truly that misinformed? Gold has many industrial uses well beyond financial and jewelry uses - Electronics usage is paramount (10:1 ratio of silver:gold usage across all electronics, which is not by any means a small quantity), but many other areas also have significant use. I would suggest a little more research on that topic.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>And, here's where you finally lost me about how you claim to understand Bitcoin. Let me address your points.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>A general user, one who only maintains a wallet, has ZERO part in any of the Bitcoin validation system. They are consumers, only, who consume the information contained within the blockchain for their transaction information and general ledger.</p><p><br /></p><p>It is the MINERS who control all the validation. Those who mine are not only attempting to generate new Bitcoins, but they are also serving as the computational validation part of the whole chain. Each miner, with it's shares, is in essence voting on which shares and transactions are valid and should be included in the blockchain.</p><p><br /></p><p>A miner may also be a user, or they may simply mine coins and dump them for immediate cash, thus providing no real usefulness. However, it is an extremely important distinction on who controls or has cause and effect on what, and why semantics matters in this conversation.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>What you are describing is what is called a "51%" attack. Going back to my previous statement above, no regular clients can affect this. It is the miners, again, who have the power, and why within the community there has always been an attempt at a "gentlemans agreement" that any mining pool would not surpass 40% of the available miners.</p><p><br /></p><p>The days of CPU power being able to mine Bitcoin have been done since 2013. There is no physical possibility of any trojan virus or malware having the ability to do this. The specialized hardware (ASICs) used today are more powerful than any number of regular computers (personal or server-class) could ever be.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I will disagree with the ease of ability to pump and dump with Bitcoin.</p><p><br /></p><p>The "alt"coins, as they are called, are ripe for pump and dump, and a good majority of them are just that. Crypto-coins, in their infancy, are a perfect scenario for this, with a large number of "coins" able to be generated very quickly at the start for the first wave of users who discover that particular new coin. Very easy to mine a whole lot of coins, then dump them quickly to the poor sod who is late to the party and doesn't do their homework, or is looking to do the same to another user, but gets caught at the wrong time.</p><p><br /></p><p>Bitcoin is well established enough at this point, has enough diversification of the coins amongst the users, and is at a high enough monetary basis level that it would be difficult to pump and dump it. With an over $1k price tag per coin, you'd be in the billions before you could acquire enough coins to affect the larger population. The only people with enough coins to do this currently (the "whales" as we call them) would be stupid to do such a thing, as they would only be seriously hurting the value of their own holdings.</p><p><br /></p><p>The only real thing to worry about, which is a significant worry for sure, is not whether someone will pump and dump, but if there is a fundamental flaw with the system which could wipe it all out. And that is a sobering thought, for sure, and one which should give pause to most on whether they should jump in or not.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Prime Mover, post: 2661951, member: 38783"]I will post some more eye candy shortly. Based upon what you've stated, you probably are best not attempting to invest in it, as it does not seem you understand it as well as you may think. This, is patently untrue. BitCoin's value is NOT derived from being simply a currency service, its value is given because of everything else surrounding it being used as a currency service.. It is all those extras of security, relative anonymity, transactional speed, low transaction fees, lack of governmental control, etc that make Bitcoin an attractive alternative means of monetary transfer. Without the technology behind Bitcoin, it is no more valuable than sea shells, salt, rocks and beads, or anything else in history that has been used as a "currency". Not understanding the utility of a physical representation of Bitcoin equates to not understanding Bitcoin. A physical bitcoin ENHANCES the utility of Bitcoin, by giving it options that allows it to be used outside the constraints of the digital world, furthering its ability to be used as a more acceptable form of currency, not less. A physical Bitcoin cannot be hacked by an outside party, providing penultimate security for your holdings. Since a Bitcoin can be split into up to 1,000,000 single bits, you can load up a physical bitcoin with as many bits as you want. I could put 0.1 Bitcoin onto a physical round, walk into a store, and if something cost 0.1BTC, I could hand over my physical bitcoin to the cashier and walk out, letting them have the option later to either redeem that 0.1BTC to their account, or to give that 0.1BTC to someone as change, and they can then take it elsewhere and further the process. I don't have to go all geek with electronics, and no one has to be waiting for the first block confirmations to make sure the payment would be valid. Please tell me where you can walk into a retailer and plunk down a chunk of silver, or gold, and walk out with goods? Or, walk in with your digital device and ask for someone's bitcoin address and a live conversion rate for BTC -> Fiat, pay them, tell them the TX id, wait 10 minutes or so for the first chain confirmation, and then leave? Bitcoin can easily be transacted online in many places as it was designed for that, but there are so few B&M retailers that accept it, it has zero current practicality as a mainstream currency. Bitcoin currently has more in line with PM's as a store of wealth than any realistic use as an everyday instrument of commerce. No one should invest in any one thing over any other one thing. As with everything else, investments should be diversified so you're cushioned against any severe losses in any single area. Investing 101. Not an entirely true statement. As you admonished another user - "Does it really make since to pick an anomalitic high point as your baseline?" Bitcoin has been around for a short ~8 years, with no real monetary value until roughly 2013. It took a meteoric rise to a high of over $1k within 12 months, then the aforementioned Silk Road and Mt. Gox fiascos brought it crashing down, seeing lows of the mid-$100's in 2015, and a slow recover to where it is now over the past 2 years. I would say that it has seen its anomalitic high point once, when it was still in its absolute infancy, adjusted/corrected, and now has found stability. We will see, only time will tell, but either way I do not think you can form any real conclusion on what its real trends are because there has not been enough time in its existence to prove anything. Are you continuing the falsities on purpose, or are you truly that misinformed? Gold has many industrial uses well beyond financial and jewelry uses - Electronics usage is paramount (10:1 ratio of silver:gold usage across all electronics, which is not by any means a small quantity), but many other areas also have significant use. I would suggest a little more research on that topic. And, here's where you finally lost me about how you claim to understand Bitcoin. Let me address your points. A general user, one who only maintains a wallet, has ZERO part in any of the Bitcoin validation system. They are consumers, only, who consume the information contained within the blockchain for their transaction information and general ledger. It is the MINERS who control all the validation. Those who mine are not only attempting to generate new Bitcoins, but they are also serving as the computational validation part of the whole chain. Each miner, with it's shares, is in essence voting on which shares and transactions are valid and should be included in the blockchain. A miner may also be a user, or they may simply mine coins and dump them for immediate cash, thus providing no real usefulness. However, it is an extremely important distinction on who controls or has cause and effect on what, and why semantics matters in this conversation. What you are describing is what is called a "51%" attack. Going back to my previous statement above, no regular clients can affect this. It is the miners, again, who have the power, and why within the community there has always been an attempt at a "gentlemans agreement" that any mining pool would not surpass 40% of the available miners. The days of CPU power being able to mine Bitcoin have been done since 2013. There is no physical possibility of any trojan virus or malware having the ability to do this. The specialized hardware (ASICs) used today are more powerful than any number of regular computers (personal or server-class) could ever be. I will disagree with the ease of ability to pump and dump with Bitcoin. The "alt"coins, as they are called, are ripe for pump and dump, and a good majority of them are just that. Crypto-coins, in their infancy, are a perfect scenario for this, with a large number of "coins" able to be generated very quickly at the start for the first wave of users who discover that particular new coin. Very easy to mine a whole lot of coins, then dump them quickly to the poor sod who is late to the party and doesn't do their homework, or is looking to do the same to another user, but gets caught at the wrong time. Bitcoin is well established enough at this point, has enough diversification of the coins amongst the users, and is at a high enough monetary basis level that it would be difficult to pump and dump it. With an over $1k price tag per coin, you'd be in the billions before you could acquire enough coins to affect the larger population. The only people with enough coins to do this currently (the "whales" as we call them) would be stupid to do such a thing, as they would only be seriously hurting the value of their own holdings. The only real thing to worry about, which is a significant worry for sure, is not whether someone will pump and dump, but if there is a fundamental flaw with the system which could wipe it all out. And that is a sobering thought, for sure, and one which should give pause to most on whether they should jump in or not.[/QUOTE]
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