Another counterfeit...?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by William F, May 12, 2021.

  1. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    Browsing through Large Cents on ebay and came across this one, at first glance there is nothing wrong with it but looking closer you can see that it has been whizzed (not a super big deal, it happens a lot with these) Also, possibly some plating blisters but that might be corrosion.
    But the bigger problem is the way "ONE CENT" is oriented on the back... several of the letters look like they are falling off/crooked... o_O have any of you seen this before? Does it seem to indicate a counterfeit? Appreciate your opinions!
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/353485235554?_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM

    Already 6 bids on it with 4+ days left.
    s-l1600 (3).jpg s-l1600 (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  3. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    Hey William ! As a Metal Detectorist , I'm thinking this is Environmental Damage . It looks like it spent time in the ground and cleaned up in my opinion . ;)
     
    Bayern, capthank and William F like this.
  4. GH#75

    GH#75 Well-Known Member

    Environmental damage can change the orientation of the letters?
     
    Chris Winkler and capthank like this.
  5. Kevin Mader

    Kevin Mader Fellow Coin Enthusiast

    Chris Winkler, capthank and William F like this.
  6. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Looks fine to me i might have to keep an eye on it;).
     
    William F likes this.
  7. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    Kevin Mader likes this.
  8. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    I didn't know the coin had a Speech presentation . :hilarious:
     
  9. Kevin Mader

    Kevin Mader Fellow Coin Enthusiast

    Indeed!! Interesting to see that the periphery devices seem reasonably spaced and level. Probably part of the engraving/trace. But the ONE CENT is hand stamped/placed on the working hub. I think I recall reading about this some time ago. Someone here will know for sure.
     
    William F likes this.
  10. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I see a lot of raised dots in the fields. They are all over the reverse. The piece is a counterfeit.

    Using my John Wright book, it appears that this is a copy of the 1829-8 variety. The crooks use a real coin to make the molds they use to produce this stuff. Therefore the lettering will be in the right place.

    It also has the general look of a Chinese copper, but I know that observation does not count.
     
  11. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Gosh...learned people strongly opining that it's real/genuine/normal...and others learned strongly opining that it's fake/counterfeit. Understand just photos and not in-hand analysis...plus opinions and everybody has one...but what does one trying to learn believe...or how/what to learn from...? Will go with consensus.
     
  12. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Really?intreasting they just keep getting better and better at this.
     
  13. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Raised dots have been a marker for cast copy or transfer dies for many years.
     
  14. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    I don't see them,my screen is ×10 smaller than yours most likely and I keep my brightness extremely low.
     
  15. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Look at the fields around “ICA” in “AMERICA.” There are many of them there. There are others in the fields, but I saw those first.
     
    potty dollar 1878 likes this.
  16. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    I see it now do you think some of his others are as well.
     
  17. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    LOL, which consensus?
    @Jack D. Young perhaps you could chime in if you have time...? :)
     
  18. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Should we try to get this one down or is it a long shot with now around $11.
     
  19. Kevin Mader

    Kevin Mader Fellow Coin Enthusiast

    I didn’t speculate on authenticity since I’m not overly familiar with this series. I had some doubts though relative to the raised dots/anomalies in the fields (my Henning has those). But corrosion on copper can have a similar effect. Many of these older cents have these problems so you need to investigate. Asking for opinions here helps generate discussion and learning along those lines. Folks who collect and study the series are in the best position to offer a strong opinion. A generalist to the series, like me, can offer more obvious input such as the lettering. All this said, research is essential. And learning from a master is paramount to rapid and improved learning. Spot those experts and take notes on their contributions. Your own level of mastery will improve. Good luck!
     
    Bayern, J.T. Parker, Publius2 and 2 others like this.
  20. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    I think it is a strong likelihood that some of his others are counterfeits also, Pretty sure it is the same seller that I mentioned in this thread:
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1843-lc-on-ebay-counterfeit.380065/
    I don't remember for sure but I think that seller had the same username...
     
  21. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    This is the way the Chinese operate now. They copy lower grade, fairly common coins that most collectors would not think are worth their while. Neophyte collectors can’t spot that it’s bad, more advanced people assume that it’s good. They have even gotten stuff like this passed NGC and PCGS. They can scrape off the problems, like raised dots and these coins into “details” holders. @Jack D. Young can tell you about this better than I.
     
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