Featured Acquired THE White Whale

Great write-up and congrats on the acquisition.

Odoacer has one of the best medieval fantasy deaths, being cleaved in half by Dietrich von Bern (Theodoric) with the giant Ecke’s sword.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

SCORE!

 

Since this thread is now featured, (congrats, VK!!), I will attempt to ride on its shoulders and link my recent post on a possible numismatic representation of Theoderic's murder of Odoacer.

 

Well done!

 

Valiant Knight, nice score & wonderful write-up. Glad to see it was featured.

 

Thanks all for the additional comments!

Thanks for the link!

 

Me too. Its been a while since I've had anything featured

 

Partners in crime to the brutal and unjustified death of Odoacer , Zeno and Theodoric (two ex-coins of mine).

Zeno



Theodoric (his monogram but obverse depicts Anastasius)

 

The Theoderic is actually a Gepid issue, yes?

 

The type comes from both the Gepids and Ostrogoths. I believe they can be attributed on stylistic grounds: the cruder, the Gepid-er . The one above is attributed as Ostrogothic.

 

I agree with the "cruder = Gepid-er" principle. But many numismatists seem to attribute that particular style to the Gepids, judging by acsearch results. I think if I wanted to be sure I had a Theoderic I would hold out for something of the following style:

I wouldn't mind the hole either, would make it nice and affordable! (This one sold for the equivalent of 88 USD at Peus in 2016.)

 

@Severus Alexander BTW really well-thought out theory and well-written thread. I wouldn't be surprised if Theodoric channeled his inner Roman emperor and decided to symbolically represent his victory over Odoacer on his siliquae! How is your thread not featured?!

 

Geez, I win some (my Odoacer nummus), I lose some, and then I completely miss some

 

Thanks, VK. Maybe it didn't get featured because I didn't actually get the coin.

Whoah, yeah, tell me about it! Good thing there are always more cool coins out there.

 

Congrats!!!

 

Thanks TJC!

 

Only now did I have time to see the topic and appreciate the coins. Fantastic, especially Odovacar. About ten years ago, I acquired a similar one on a trip to Italy, in a well-known numismatic house in Rome. It was not cheap, but the joy of having one of these in the collection is simply unparalleled. I apologize for the poor quality of the images. I definitely do not have the gift for it. In addition, because it is small and dark green patina, the details are not well observed. Much better in hansa. The matter is that it started to develop bronze disease, but it is stable at this moment. The humidity here is very large.The coin has a good provenance and seems to me to be real. Here goes the pictures:

RIC 3502

 

I nearly won an Odoacer of this same exact style from a Savoca eBay auction a couple of years ago. After the auction I consulted a friend who owns a couple of authentic Odoacer nummi and is a longtime collector of late Roman, and he was doubtful about it, specifically the much higher quality style than is usual for this type.

Searched for Odoacer nummi on acsearch around the time I found my current example and lo-and-behold, Savoca again offered an Odoacer with this same specific style (as your example and of the one I almost won) in April of this year:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4896294

Pretty odd IMO. I can't say with 100% certainty that yours is fake, but the style alone makes me leery (I hope its real though).

But Emporium Hamburg seems to have the fake Odoacer nummi market cornered, at least according to acsearch. The styles and surfaces look so bad on them, and I've also seen fake rare nummi of other rulers (such as Anthemius) with the same fabric as these coins. Some operation somewhere has been flooding the market with fake rare late Roman nummi for the past several years. Its definitely disappointing. I also know that, sometimes, authentic nummi of Honorius and other common rulers are fraudulently overstruck with rare ruler's names/monograms/etc.

 

I really appreciate your comments, @ValiantKnight. When I acquired this coin, based on its rarity, as soon as I arrived in Brazil, the first thing I did was to take it to an old friend of mine, an Italian numismatist specializing in late roman bronze, who before moving to Brazil had with his father a traditional numismatic house in Torino. He examined it and saw nothing to suggest a forgery. I also saw nothing wrong. I observed clear signs of natural aging, including under the microscope. I did not notice signs of forgery, based on my little 30-year experience in collecting ancient coins, nor evidence of a current forged restruck on some common fifth-century Nummus trying to create a super rarity. Of course, I'm just an amateur in this stuff and I can be completely mistaken. In addition, the coin has been developing bronze disease points on the surface, with 2 small points of corrosion, at the moment with no evidence of progression. As for the style, I think it a little bit complicated to condemn such a coin, relying only on a few images of the internet, especially in a type that has only a few copies available. If we look at it, the image of the currency of the British Museum seems very suspect, compared to the style of yours, as well as the image you presented in drawing (I have no doubt that your coin is real).
Opinions will always be very welcome, and always Mané great a thread like this. I don’t know the origin of the coins from the Savoca stores, but I fully agree that those at the Emporium Hamburg are in fact very suspect.

 

I wholeheartedly agree, if its not a blatant fake then yeah it can get complicated determining authenticity based on internet photos alone. I'm glad you had it checked out and that it was given the okay. If yours and the Savoca coins are fake then they are very convincing ones; had you shown me yours to me a few years ago I don't think I would have questioned it at all. Im not 100% that your coin is fake, but considering my past experience and what I've been told, if offered a similar example I would pass. That's just me though. If Savoca hadn't sold another of the exact same style in April as the one I almost won, then I'd be a little more convinced. I'm not an expert either so I always consult with others if I'm doubtful, the coin is very rare, or both. Lets try and get @Brian Bucklan in here and get his opinion on it. Perhaps @Valentinian can give his thoughts on it as well?