Preparing to collect

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Many of us wonder what theme we should collect. Those of us with lots of experience agree there is no "should" to it. But, when you want to focus a bit, you might consider making a list of the types in your theme.

    A portrait series of the twelve Caesars with twelve entries on the list comes to mind. Or, a portrait series of all the emperors recognized at Rome (about 70). [This list "recognized at Rome" has the virtue of leaving out some extremely rare and expensive usurpers.] Another possibility is to specialize (partially) in a particular emperor. I know someone who collects only Constantine, and someone who has considered collecting Postumus (that would be a huge list) and then Crispus (a much more limited list).

    I know collectors with no list in mind, and others with extremely detailed lists who search hard for the types they are missing.

    I wonder how many of you are list makers? I certainly am. I still have paper "type set" lists of the AE types of late Roman emperors (late Roman emperors do not have too many types each) that I made decades ago. Now my lists begin on paper but are transferred to the web when I am ready.

    Here is one type issued by Theodosius (and others):
    Type 5: AE3. GLORIA ROMANORVM
    Emperor right drags captive and holds labarum
    364-388 [RIC also lists it in the period 388-392 at Trier]

    TGR.jpg
    Theodosius
    18-16 mm. 6:00. 2.49 grams.
    RIC Aquileia 45b1

    That reverse type is one of the most common of all Roman types.

    Late Roman AE makes a good area to collect if your budget is limited. The great majority of types are among the least expensive of all ancient coins, and the rarer types occasionally come along at reasonable prices. Long ago I decided to look into all the AE types in RIC IX, the volume on Valentinian to the death of Theodosius (364-395). Eventually it resulted in the site:

    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/ricix/

    It is a large site with many pages. Even if you use the site regularly, I'll bet there are interesting pages linked to the main page that you haven't found yet--it is that large.

    The site has "type sets" for the emperors. At first, the sets were lists (my old lists!) linked to the pages with descriptions and images. Some type sets still are simple like that (because I have not yet gotten around to improving them). Over the past week I revised the type-set page for Theodosius. Now it has images and better descriptions, as well as the old links. One entry is illustrated above. The page is here:

    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/ricix/TheodosiusSet.html

    If you got interested in Theodosius (there are books written on him, so the subject has some depth) you might decide to collect his AE. The whole project would be inexpensive, with only a few types you are unlikely to see offered. (If one comes along and I see it, you would have to compete with me, but not many others, for it.)

    Making lists requires research that prepares you for buying coins. Lists help you decide what you want and the research helps you learn what it is "worth" when offered. Making a list is part of the hobby and, itself, does not cost money, so it is a great pastime between purchases. (Now, we can just read CoinTalk threads all day, so maybe you don't need to pass the time.)

    Let us hear about a list you have on paper or in mind and an example of a coin on it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I'm a list loser. I make lists and then can't find where I put them, or where I filed them in the computer. :oops:

    As for coin collecting, I do make a few lists, usually short lists of specific groups or themes. Mostly, though, I just make note of good "story coins" or coins which appeal to me visually, or which appeal to me for any number of specific or nonspecific reasons.
     
  4. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    I make lists for sub-collections (e.g. Plautilla denarii, the Divi series of Trajan Decius). Otherwise I follow both my nose and heart.

    Trying to put together a complete collection of the Dombes coinage, it's of course a different story : a list, yes, but as they are so many unlisted coins, a list isn't enough at all

    Q
     
  5. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Whatever list you make, just stay way from Gordian III...capiche?

    Wouldn't want to wake up to find a horse's head on your bed....right? I think we understand each other, bambino.

    godfather-horse-head-scene01.jpg
     
  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I'll stay away from his Imperials (mostly) but I need to ask you to stay away from his Provincials :p :D
     
  7. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    I've generally adhered to my wantlist. It's extensive, often referencing exact examples I eventually hope to acquire (even if it takes years of waiting), but it's helped keep me focused.

    They are prioritized in a few dimensions: Necessity, Cost, Carpe Diem.

    Necessity: Do I "need" this coin to "complete" my collection? There are a large number of "nice to have" coins on my list but they aren't essential.

    Cost: Pricey coins tie up budget and could prevent later purchases from being possible (every bid increment counts) so it's necessary to weigh the potential opportunity cost.

    Carpe Diem: The opportunity factor. How often will this coin come around? Is it rare enough to justify needing to jump on it immediately? If I'll see another 10 examples this year, perhaps it's better to wait.

    I rate each potential purchase on these factors and attempt to derive a "value for money" score which more or less drives how aggressive I will be on a particular coin.

    Or I ignore all of this and keep my hand up in the auction room.
     
  8. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this, Warren. I am one of those who has benefitted from your pages long before I knew you in this virtual forum.

    I agree with you about the virtues of focus, though I’m pleased to see your rhetoric here is not prescriptive. I know some (e.g., Doug) who insist on collecting what you like--lists be darned--and ultimately that’s probably what most of us do in our own ways.

    I’m a collector who enjoys having a focus since the infinite variety of ancient coins can yield a kind of option paralysis. I focus on the coins of Constantine for budget reasons, the wealth of reverse types, and his pivotal place in history.

    I can’t say I keep a proper paper list, but I use Victor’s Constantine pages and Glenn Simonelli’s Constantine collection as a kind of checklist of types. These function as a ready list for my purposes.

    Partially in response to Sallent’s “Confessions of a Numismatic Sinner,” I’m in the process of overhauling my Constantine collection and really nailing down RIC numbers whenever possible and arranging the coins’ virtual and physical display in chronological order. I’m on Spring Break right now, so I have the time for it. Back in college I would spend my spring break emptying my bank account, getting sunburned, and trying to talk to completely disinterested girls. Cataloguing coins in my home is much cheaper, healthier, and Julia Domna can’t walk away from me in mid-sentence.

    So for the first time in about 13 years of collecting, I finally have a mental understanding of the order of Constantine bronze coinage. Such is the benefit of “preparing to collect.” And this undertaking is guiding me on what my next purchase(s) should be.

    Finally, I do collect plenty of other coin types. I bought a Constantine Sunday night. My previous three coins were a Jewish War Year 2 coin, a Claudius as, and a Constans “barbarian / hut” from Arles. I’ve adopted a 3:1 guideline (not rule). If I’ve bought 3 non-Constantine coins, I try to be intentional about making the next coin a Constantine to keep that collection moving forward. Of course it’s a guideline and not a rule. But after a few years, I think I will be really glad that my collection can be broad but still have “depth” in at least one area, with my own numismatic expertise benefiting as well.

    The 3:1 guideline helps me maintain the focus and discipline that aid my approach to collecting.

    Oh, and on the “list” is a Constantine Genio Pop Rom from London. Early coin as Augustus. The photo is a CNG pic from Wildwinds.

    _london_RIC_VI_089b.jpg
     
  9. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    No list here, at least for ancients. I just buy whatever is within my budget or looks to be a deal that goes unnoticed.

    Now my world coins, I have had a short mental list of what I need for my British type set.

    But other world coins, it's the same with ancients.
     
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  10. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    Here's a list of Roman provincial mints compiled by Henrik Agndal. It is also a good tool for identification purposes.

    http://tjbuggey.ancients.info/orter.htm

    I've marked off over 200 now... out of over 600.
     
  11. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    @ancientone, I like the idea of collecting a coin from each of the provincial mints. (I don't do it, but I like the idea.) I have a cork board on my wall with a National Geographic ancient history map pinned on it. When I get a coin from a city I don't know well, I stick a labeled (e.g. "Colophon") in it in the right place. Then I can look it over to remind myself where all those obscure cities are.
     
  12. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I've started mapping my Provincials on a virtual map but have fallen behind. Some of the city locations are imprecise and for some, more accurate GPS information is available and I need to adjust the pins. You can click to zoom it to a high degree (it is a Google map)

    http://www.tifcollection.com/roman-provincials-by-map

    A separate map for the Greek section:

    http://www.tifcollection.com/view-all-greek-by-map
     
  13. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Well-Known Member

    I make lists for everything, not just my hobbies, it's how I stay organized each day.:happy:

    I just created a medieval women checklist -- a work in progress. Here's a quarter carlino by Joanna II which I picked up in the latest Gemini auction.
    Joanna II Naples.png
    1414-1435 Joanna II
    Italian States. NAPLES: The Angevin Kings Coinage from Local Mints.
    Quarter carlino or Cella, 0.95g
    Obv: S PETRVS C, S. Pier Celestino seated holding cross in left hand.
    Rev: REGINA IVHANNA, Crowned eagle, head left.
    Reference: MEC 735, MIR(IMC) 59, where attributed to L’AQUILA
     
  14. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    Thanks interesseting topic

    I ike game coins, rare bust types draped bust, emperor on platform, and emperor on hors, and buildings to
    Eagles to.
     
  15. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    I do have a mental list, but as a survey and budget collector, items on my list are usually broad, like rulers, regions, cool devices.

    This year, I am forcusing on Roman coins, next year I'm hitting Greek.

    Here are some recent purchases crossed off things like, coin of titus, coin of lucilla, coin of claudius, a quinarius. i did pick up on greek, it was a coin coin of lesbos, that region was on my list.

    Some items still high on the list for this year...


    roma head rr denarius
    augustus
    tiberius
    a siliqua
     
  16. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I have a spreadsheet with multiple pages arranged roughly geographically. Each page has a checklist of (rather idiosyncratic) historically significant figures or events which I try to represent with a coin. Here's a bit from my "Western Asia" page.

    Screen Shot 2017-04-10 at 11.52.00 AM.png

    Usually the list guides my purchases, but sometimes it goes the other way around. :)

    Here's one of my checkmarks from that page, a drachm of Mithradates II:

    Screen Shot 2017-04-10 at 12.01.03 PM.png
     
  17. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    I know it is a monumental task and unless I win the lotto, will never be achieved. I use this map for locating cities:

    http://pelagios.org/maps/greco-roman/

    and this one if I want precise info:

    https://pleiades.stoa.org/
     
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  18. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    I have 2 lists, one is relatively finite (the 12 Caesars), though I would argue that there is much interesting variation to be had within it. The other is a record of my historical figures collection. This one is rather more open ended. The only qualification for membership is that the figure be somewhat historically significant, and I get to define what that means. I am quite happy to see this list grow as my reading interests grow. Also, this list is not limited to Greece and Rome. There are plenty of other historically significant cultures. So I would say that while I prefer not to collect everything shiny, there is more than enough flexibility to add almost any interesting coin I care to.
     
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  19. icerain

    icerain Mastir spellyr

    I don't have a list but recently I've been taking an interest in Julia Domna and coins from Cappadocia. Only problem is I haven't won the lottery yet. There are so many that I want, plus it's still hard for me to fully focus on a series. Every time I see something cool, I feel that I want it.
     
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  20. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I have a list in my head of whats emperors I'd like to have an example but not specific coins except for the Fel Temp coins. I have a pretty specific idea of what I want when it comes to FTRs and Fallen Horseman, but it's always the ones I didn't know I needed or didn't plan to get tat make my happiest.
     
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  21. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Excellent! I am going to learn how to do that. I have already begun at googlemaps:

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/

    Thanks for the idea!
     
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