Featured Accented Hair Reverse with Normal Obverse - listed as Variety by ANACS...

@jtlee321 - Where can I find the guide that translates these letters and numbers? FS-503 D/D

 

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Cherrypickers Guide vol.2
FSmeans: Bill Fivaz and J T Stanton, the authors of the Cherrypickers Guide. on page 307, is the 1964 ms d/d, also known as Coneca RPM-003. RPM means repunched mint mark.

Chascat

 

Thanks for that! Do the TPG's use different identifiers for these variety's? Or are they all the same?

 

The same for the most part.

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks @chascat.

Most TPGer's will use the FS numbers on their variety attributions.

 

You,r welcome! Now the 1964 D/D variety is mixed up with this trans. die group.

The mint was in a panic to produce the most new Kennedy coins as possible. This makes me think that a large number of type 1 rev. dies were made in order to satisfy the demand for new Kennedys. When Jackie stopped production of accented hair obverse design, those many extra rev. dies were probably recycled into the new Kennedy design. Some filtered down into production of business strikes, this is probably why so many type 2 rev. coins are showing up. It is my guess that when more collectors (like myself) become aware of these, they will become a must have item and therefore become more valuable in higher grades. Just my opinion!

Chascat

 

Yes, that was my understanding as well. Thanks for reinforcing my thoughts.

 

WOW! I suppose also that 2 + 2 = 7. When did Jackie stop the production of the "Accented Hair" obverse design and what did that have to do with the RDV-001 and the RDV-002?

Just to put thing in perspective and to show how common Proof Kennedy half dollars are with the ODV-002 (Normal Hair) paired with the RDV-001 (Straight G), you need to look no further then the CONECA files (remember that there are many more die pairs of this type that are not recognizable doubled dies). For 1964 Proof Kennedy half dollars the following list are for ODV-002 / RDV-001:

DDO-009, DDO-020, DDO-032, DDO-034, DDO-036, DDR-007, DDR-008, DDR-018, DDR-020, DDR-024 plus I have about 10 others 1964 "Normal Hair" Kennedys mated to the RDV-001 (Straight G) that James Wiles classified as "Too minor to list".

As far as the 1964-D/D RPM-003 (FS-503) is concerned, the RPM-004, RPM-007, RPM-008, RPM-009 and the RPM-010 are all on the RDV-001(Straight G) plus the 1964-D - MDO-002, DDO-002, DDO-010, DDO-012, MDR-001 and the DDR-002.

This in not a new discovery or anything like the type "B" reverse Washington quarters.

I realize you mentioned yesterday that "I (you) will discuss this variety with a couple of the top Kennedy guys and check in later, hopefully with accurate info." I hope you will not be disappointed in what they tell you. With the exception of James Wiles, probably the "TOP" Kennedy variety collector is a member on these boards and goes by the handle atrox001 if you want to send him a PM.

I do not want to discourage anyone's enthusiasm for collecting Kennedy varieties but please see the forest through the trees and don't try to make a castle out of an ant hill.

Just my two cents on the subject,
Tim

 

Is this the same as saying:

In a more tactful way of course..............

The Kennedy Series has so much more to offer than what is in the CPG and if folks ONLY concentrate on that CPG then it is no surprise when they come across something different and unfamiliar. Trying to explain that it's no big deal can be construed as flippant or even crabby.

However, the reality is that there are a lot of different folks that KNOW a lot of different things about different coins. I happen to know that Tim C and his son Caleb have one of the best complete or near complete Kennedy Variety Sets in existence! Couple that with Larry Nienaber ( @atrox001 )and you've pretty much got the Kennedy Half Dollar completely covered by the best!

I'd take these folks word as gospel because, it's not criticism or discouragement............it's called "Learning".

 

Tim, Most of those error varieties are of no particular interest to me or to many others who collect. I,m interested in the more obvious major die varieties which include the design changes which I have just recently learned about. To me, and I don,t speak for others, this rev. trans. die design is a very big deal. I only collect what I think are major die varieties but not the minor mint error coins. And yes, I still do rank this trans. reverse Kennedy with type B Washington Quarters reverse. Both or these rev. changes were done intentionally and not by error and for the same reasons deemed necessary by the mint director, to save money and produce as many coins as possible in the shortest time.

Chascat.

 

Your enthusiasm over this "secondary discovery" is laudable but it simply does not change the fact that many formal Kennedy Collector's view this "die marriage" as common. Since it is the Kennedy Collectors which dictate what is and is not an important discovery, I seriously doubt that any efforts at formally recognizing these die marriages as anything other than common will amount to much. I would be properly educated and surprised if it were to occur.

It is, however, a huge tool for encouraging further exploration and analysis of the Kennedy Half Dollar series over and above what is fed to the masses via the Cherry Pickers Guide (CPG) and its assumed "Biblical" Properties.

Welcome to the club!

 

It,s kind of like trying to be a good politician, don,t cross your chickens until your bridges are hatched!

 

There are far more collectors that collect DDOs and DDRs then the ODVs or RDVs marriages for the simple reason that DDOs and DDRs have more value over common ODVs and RDVs.

 

But I just don,t care much about mint errors which I can,t even see without a loop, and most collectors do agree with me. Collect what you like, not what others like!

 

Yet...........the die markers for RDV-001 require a loop to identify. Especially since they are so "noticeable" and eyeball obvious..........

..............that nobody ever saw them until they were told they were there.

The exact same thing could be said of the Washington Type B Reverse.

 

You are the one that said “I honestly believe these Trans. Reverse coins should be considered a major die variety worth much more investigation.” All I’m saying is that the subject has already been looked at (investigated) and the 1964 Proof Kennedy ODV-002 / RDV-001 carries no premium then a ODV-002 / RDV-002 unless it happens to be one of the recognized Doubled Dies.

I also noticed you stated earlier that “When Jackie stopped production of accented hair obverse design, those many extra rev. dies were probably recycled into the new Kennedy design.” I assume you are talking about Mrs. Jackie Kennedy, there is no evidence to support this myth, to the contrary if you believe John Roberts (who designed the obverse of the Kennedy half dollar) when he and Treasurer Dillon met with Mrs. J. Kennedy and Attorney General R. Kennedy, Mrs. Kennedy wanted more accents and less of a part in the hair which Roberts modified and after approval from Treasure Secretary Dillon he started making the Proof dies.

“It is my guess that when more collectors (like myself) become aware of these, they will become a must have item and therefore become more valuable in higher grades. Just my opinion!” I hope you have a long time horizon in mind for I doubt there will be any premium in these die marriages in mine or your life time (they are just too common and minted by a large number of dies).

19Lyds answered you on this comment but I would like to add the following. I have been studying Kennedy half dollars for a few decades now, the past twelve years quite extensively with my son and a few other collectors. Most of the obverse and reverse die changes over the years need a loupe to distinguish them apart. But you say that these 1964 Proof ODV-002 / ODV-001 will become a must have item and therefore become more valuable in higher grades”?

If you are looking for premiums in value, stick with DDOs and DDRs, and regardless of what you say, MOST collectors DO agree with me on this one. Feel free to check past auction on Heritage or Great Collections on prices paid for some of these Kennedy half dollars DDOs and DDR “mint errors which I can’t even see without a loop.” The prices will probably surprise you (I'm talking $1,500 - $4,800 for not even top pops).

 

I came to this website for occasional information which may or may not be of use to my collecting, and did receive some useful information, but as for the dark side of being here, I feel that I,m being judged and convicted for a crime which I didn,t commit. I obviously don,t belong here until I can know it all as many of you experts seem to. I give thanks to all of you who actually helped me with my questions and gave me useful information.

Sincerely,
Chascat

 

You're not being judged. You're being "informed".
Your misinformed opinion, which appears to be based upon a lack of information, is simply being adjusted with actual "informed" information from collectors that have known about these for years.

Most folks, including Ethan (who started the thread) figured out that these are actually quite common (Post 22 ans 28) without getting their feathers ruffled and opining about "being judged" and "convicted of a crime".

You're been informed..........accept the information and move forward. Maybe you can inform the next guy that makes this discovery?

 

So after scanning through this exhaustive trail of postings, I am understanding that these Proof Kennedy "Transitional Variety" coins are not that rare? I would assume this means they are much more common than the AH?

Excuse my ignorance, but does anyone know just how common they are relative to other 1964 proofs?