Featured Accented Hair Reverse with Normal Obverse - listed as Variety by ANACS...

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Ethan, May 17, 2014.

  1. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    So I have seen a few threads about Accented Hair Kennedy's but I ran accross a Variety Type. It is not an Accented Hair yet has the same Reverse as the AH one. What I think to be the case is the AH Obverse Die was taken out of service yet the Reverse Die was continued for a while longer. I think that ANACS is the only TPG that will slab as such.

    I just bought two of them. The pictures suck but when I get them in hand I will post better ones.

    Here is an example of what I mean, found here..



    Normal Type

    I saw these and thought why not? I had not heard of them and they look kinda neat and did not break the bank..

    So I started looking and NGC will not label them but they have them...see

    1964 Kennedy "Transitional Die" NGC PF67 STAR CAMEO PR



    I can not see in these pictures whether it has a straight G but I bet it does.

    Here is another one,



    And some others that are for sale..






    Edit - Another one for $14.


    Prices are all over the place but what I find interesting is the comments on some of them..


    It would seem that this makes sense. It is not an Accented Hair, but the Reverse Dies last longer than the Obverse. So interpolating what that means is that this variety should be more rare than the Accented Hair one. That is of course if I am not missing anything..

    Could this be a sleeper? I have not checked all my 64 Proofs for this but I will shortly.

    What say you?
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
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  3. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    I don't know that one can necessarily assume that it would be more scarce than the AH. After all, if the obverse die were taken out of service early then the reverse may have been used to strike significantly more coins. My guess would be that if PCGS and/or NGC starts to certify them with some type of designation or a really catchy name (such as AH) then interest would perk up. Additionally, if they were required for the variety registry sets, which I assume is not the case if they are not recognized by PCGS and/or NGC then again interest would pick up.

    To me these seem to be a low risk bet and even if they do not pan out as a big sleeper or valuable winner, they are still an interesting part of history and would be cool to own.
  4. Pcunix

    Pcunix Active Member

    I didn't know about this, guess I better check my 64's :)
  5. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    RDV-001 ( Reverse Die Variety ) can be found coupled with ODV-001 (Accented Hair) and ODV-002 Normal Hair) in a coupe of different coins. Specifically the of Cs for 1964 (Accented Hair and NormaHair) and the 1964-D Business Strike.

    Both proof and business strike versions are transitional varieties, they are also not that difficult to locate.

    Scarce? No. Not at all.

    Sleeper? No. Not at all its just that a new generation of Kennedy Collectors is starting to notice what folks have known about since at least 1998 when James Wiles published the Kennedy Half Dollar Book.

    As for ANACS, they'll slab anything with the proper documentation. NGC and PCGS, on the other hand, require much,much more!

    If course, this is NOT a slam on ANACS as they do provide a valuable service for Coin Collectors.
  6. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Well I just added some information and link to one that sold for $14. I think I would have grabbed that if I had known what I know now.

    - Went through all my 64 Proofs (20).......second to last one, I found it. It is not a Cameo but it is in great shape. So I have found one of these in the wild also. I have only found one Accented Hair in the wild so that is a tie.

    Found some more information on these,


    My Cherrypicker's 4th Edition has it somewhat, its says an AH in PR65 is worth $20 and the normal variety in PR65 is $9. So 1/2 the AH. Well I am not to sure about this.

    So lets dig a bit and maybe someone that has some population figures can cross it over to PCGS and NGC.

    From ANACS Website (2012) Date.....
    1964 PF TYPE 1 STRAIGHT G (29)
    1964 PF ACCENTED HAIR FS-401 (242)

    That is roughly 12% of the Accented Hair Type. Now we should interpolate some things. First, this is almost unknown compared to the AH type. As I have found there is no real demand for these that I can find. I think this is strange as they have to be uncommon and any Kennedy collector should want one.

    Again gathering some information on the AH at;

    and here;

    So if I take my random sample of 20 and I found one, then that is 5%.

    I can not remember where but I think that I read that the obverse die is used for 2/3 of the time that the reverse is. I am not positive about this, so I will just use a conservative figure of 1/3 more for the Reverse Die.

    If we take the guesstimated mintage of Accented Hair Kennedy's at 100,000. That leaves about 50,000 of these theoretically.

    Lets assume 25% were melted around 1980 and maybe some in 2011.

    That takes us to around 37,500. This is a round number, you see how I came up with it so take it with a grain of salt.

    However, if one were to find a Cameo/Deep Cameo of these, then the ballgame changes. I remember seeing somewhere that NGC and PCGS each have around 1000 of the 64 Cameo's. I can not remember the Accented Hair Cameos but I would bet that these are even more rare. Think about it, the dies were used towards the end stage, before Mrs. Kennedy made them change it. If Cameo's only make up say 15% of the total numbers, then these Type 2 Obverse - Type 1 Reverse coins should only have a population of at most 12% of the regular ones. Remember that ANACS probably has a higher percentage of these graded as they are the only ones to slab them.

    I forgot I can get into NGC so lets take a look shall we?

    1964 AH 7809
    1964 AH CAM 1031
    1964 AH DCAM 63

    Lets look at PCGS

    1964 AH 4075
    1964 AH CAM 808
    1964 AH DCAM 94

    Well that is around 14,000 Accented Hair Kennedy's that have been slabbed. I am not going to change that number even though I know some are crossovers and resubmitted coins.

    Just seeing these numbers makes me think that of these Type 2 Obverse - Type 1 Reverse numbers should come out conservatively around here:

    1964 T2O-T1R ~ 6500
    1964 T2O-T1R CAM ~ 1000
    1964 T2O-T1R DCAM ~ 85

    Well there you have it, my afternoon gone but I did enjoy it. Maybe we have a Sleeper Kennedy on our hands.

    PS. In my research I came up with this thread in CoinTalk.

    micbraun likes this.
  7. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Well I just got a surprise, a pleasant one actually. I forgot to look at my PCGS Slabs. Guess what? PR68 even....cool.


    Attached Files:

  8. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Just looked in the Kennedy Half Dollar Book. I took a picture of the page. This is it, I am sure. Why do the top Tier TPG's ignore it?


    As per the description, as small percentage have the Type 1 Reverse and notice the price is $10 more for this one than the Accented Hair! (1998 prices).
  9. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Excellent thread, Ethan. I have seen all those transitional variety Kennedy $1/2 on eBay and had similar thoughts. Well, if you find a DCAM then put that coin 7ft under and only dig it out if it really turns out to be a sleeper and its value has skyrocketed ;-)
    Ethan likes this.
  10. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Thing is if I find a DCAM its a winner no matter what. :)
  11. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    I really hate to say it but you're making more out of this than it actually is.
  12. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    I am having fun, I know many already of knew of this, but I did not. When I got back into collecting I chose to collect Kennedy's and here I am. I just found out about it and educated myself on it.

    No different that when I learned of the 98S Matte, I learned about it and then went an got one raw. When at a show, I saw one PCGS MS69(older slab) for $100, I grabbed it.

    Its all about learning my chosen part of the hobby. That is why I have the other threads on 64 and varieties. It is so that I can learn and folks can learn along with me if they choose.

    Is this 1/2 Accented Hair a big deal? Well from what I have learned, I think it could be someday. The information out there leads one to believe that the mintage is less than the AH itself, and if that is the case, then variety collectors will want one and maybe the TPG's will take notice. I mean they have for other denominations right? The Penny folks sure would agree with that. I mean it did get a page in the Kennedy book so somebody else thought it worth noting.

    Is it rare? Well the fact that I found 2 of them in my stuff means probably not, probably just uncommon but who really knows. Like you said in the other thread, we do not know the mintage. Maybe if people start looking, a better picture will emerge.

    Let's take a look at that Kennedy book again, the AH variety has a URS of 19 which Mr. Wiles puts the mintage at 125,001 - 250,000. A PR67 is listed as $40 (1998). Well this variety in discussion has a URS of 17, in which Mr. Wiles puts the mintage around 32,001 - 64,000 (I was on the right track). A PR67 is listed as $50. If he deems it more valuable than the AH, then maybe he is on to something.

    If they kill off the Kennedy half (likely at some point), this might become a bigger deal real quick.
  13. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Well I got them in and the Cameo is a very nice one. I am glad I got these and they are a neat part of history. I have tried and tried to take nice pictures but I give up for now. It is what it is..

    I am sure this story will continue, for one I am not done yet.

    I did hear on another forum that a gentlemen looked through his slabs and he found a 64PR67 DCAM that is one of Accented Hair's little brothers. That seemed to make his day as well it should.

    Here are mine (Close ups sucky as they are attached):

    Attached Files:

  14. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Well I did some more digging on these. First ICG is not a top tier, I know this. However the one I have is very nice. Still here are some more of Accented Hair's little brother. This goes to show that they are known, attributed somewhat, and not common per se. That DCAM one is VERY nice indeed but $1200 is a bit high for me.




  15. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Well I just thought of something.

    If the new Gold 50th year Anniversary half will be of the original design, then one would have to ask if that would be the Accented Hair. My understanding is that it would not be. I would say it would not be, so therefore it would be a Type 2 Obverse with a Type 1 Reverse maybe? That would make it a copy of Accented Hair's Little Brother would it not? Interesting thought anyway.....

    What about the Silver Proofs?

  16. robec

    robec Junior Member

    I love your enthusiasm and excitement of newly discovered facts.

    It brings back very fond memories of what it was like when I first started collecting and discovering.
    MKent and Ethan like this.
  17. McBlzr

    McBlzr Sr Professional Collector

    If a 1964 Kennedy proof is sent to NGC, will they label it as AH automatically if it is, or do you have to request it with the variety fee added ?
  18. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Extra for a variety Listing is my understanding...
  19. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    I would call NGC since the Accented Hair coin was attributable well before the CPG designations (FS-401) were recognized. As such, no fee would be required.

    This is the way it is with PCGS since 2 coin numbers exist for the Accented Hair coin:

    6801 = Accented Hair Kennedy - $16 Grading Fee
    145625 = Accented Hair Kennedy - $16 Grading Fee + $24 Attribution Fee

    The ONLY difference between the two is that one slab label will say Accented Hair and the other will say Accented Hair FS-401.

    That's exactly $4.00 for each letter with no other added value.

    Whatever you do when you call, don't ask if you have to pay the attribution since they'll say Yes (who wouldn't). Instead just ask if they recognize the Accented Hair Kennedy Proof.
    silentnviolent likes this.
  20. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    Somehow this does not surprise me. I wanted to do the 2 free ANACS until I realized the two I would send would need to be attributed and therefore not much of a gain.
  21. rickmp

    rickmp Frequently flatulent.

    I have a few of these, but had no idea that there was anything special about them. Thanks for all of the info.
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