5 Oz America The Beautiful Bullion

I agree with the approach; the Royal Australian Mint has had mint-on-demand programs which eliminate the stampede aspect. However, bullion coins by definition are investor-based, not collector-based. The solution seems to be offering numismatic versions of these coins. There is clearly an interest. I'm not sure the mint anticipated that and of course, Congress is, as usual, clueless about the implications of their legislation for collectors.

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is the total lack of communication from the mint about these programs. Even this morning, the US Mint news feed is proudly announcing that the 5 oz. bullion coins will be released December 6th.

 

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Totally agree with you on this and esp. about the Mint's problems with communicating to the public/collectors. Their candor is appalling.

They could sidestep the bullion issue, not making that on demand, even though they say they are currently doing this "to meet demand", but they just shouldn't be making bullion versions of collector coins as they are with these 5 oz pieces.

 

$825,000.00
Classic !
sad thing someone may bid on it

 

defintly wont be me.. even for the whole set... geezus thats expensive... too darn exp..it would be funny tho if the mint flipped an offered them on there site instead..altho it wont happ.. i think the coin and chronicle set might have the same val...

 

Hi ####,
We spoke earlier on the phone. Here is the statement that the United States Mint is issuing:
The United States Mint is aware of reports of concern by many consumers about the high prices and premiums being charged in the market for the newly released America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins. We are evaluating these reports and collecting information in order to assess the appropriate course of action to make certain that our customers are best served in the distribution of the coins, and to ensure the widest possible availability, accessibility and affordability of these coins.


From what I have been told, sales have been suspended in order to fix the issues of the high prices. Nonetheless, there are maybe 11 authorized dealers and they will receive 3,000 coins of each design. This is a low mintage. Attached is a list of the authorized purchasers (it says American Eagle, but they are the same purchasers).
Regards,
Candice Bruno
United States Mint
Office of Public Affairs
202.354.7227
<<AMERICAN EAGLE-BUFFALO AUTHORIZED PURCHASERS.pdf>>

 

Purchasers [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]AMERICAN EAGLE/AMERICAN BUFFALO
AUTHORIZED PURCHASERS
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]UNITED STATES
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]A-Mark Precious Metals (Los Angeles)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (310) 319-0371
Contact: Mr. Rand LeShay
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]American Precious Metals Exchange, Inc. (Oklahoma)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (405) 595-2100
Contact: Mr. Scott Thomas
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver only [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Coins ‘N Things Inc. (Massachusetts)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (508) 697-9600
Contact: Mr. Mark Oliari or
Mr. Paul Thompson
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Dillon Gage Incorporated of Dallas (Texas)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone (972) 386-2901
Contact: Mr. Terry Hanlon
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver only [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]MTB (New York)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone (212) 981-4510
Contact: Mr. Michael Kramer
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Prudential Securities Inc. (New York)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (212) 778-6667
Contact: Mr. Walter Pehowich
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Scotia Mocatta (New York)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (212) 225-6200
Contact: Mr. Steve Abbriano or
Victoria Bernard
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The Gold Center (Illinois)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (217) 793-8000
Contact: Mr. Jim Hausman
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver only [/FONT]

EUROPE
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Commerzbank International
(Luxembourg)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (352) 477911-2324
Contact: Mr. Michael Kempinski
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri](New York Office)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Mr. Sandy Gellis
Mr. Randy Weinerman
(212) 336-1000
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver and Gold [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Deutsche Bank A.G. (Germany)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: Frankfurt: (49) (69) 910-31000
Contact: Mr. Joerg Stath
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver and Gold [/FONT]

FAR EAST
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Tanaka Kinkinzoku Kogyo K.K.
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (813) 3668-0111
Contact: Mr. O. Ikeda
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Gold and Platinum [/FONT]

Total Worldwide Authorized American Eagle/American Buffalo Gold Purchasers: 8
Total Worldwide Authorized American Eagle Silver Purchasers: 12
Total Worldwide Authorized American Eagle Platinum Purchasers: 6

 

sorry for the huge post, this is all I was sent regarding the ATB bullion

 

I have not inquired about nor placed an order for any of the 5 oz. coins from any dealers.

Below is an email message sent out today 12/7 to all customers of Modern Coin Mart:

[QUOTE]
Dear ModernCoinMart Customer,

Where do I start?

There has been an avalanche of publicity and controversy concerning the release of the National Parks 5 Ounce Silver “Bullion” Coins. Because of this, and because we have been unable to launch pre-sales up until now, I thought it would be appropriate to comment. Many of you have been asking us when we will have them and what the pricing structure will be. I have been very uncomfortable with the situation because as the largest online retailer of certified modern coins your expectations of us are very high and the last thing we want to do is to offer a product and then withdraw it, or change the rules concerning purchase and pricing dramatically.

I was immediately disappointed when I found out that the mintage for each coin would be 33,000 vs. the original estimate of 100,000. I thought that even at 100,000 the coins would command premiums on the secondary market well in excess of normal bullion mark ups. There was no doubt in my mind that with a mintage of 33,000 per coin these coins would not be treated as “bullion” in the marketplace. Adding to the quandary was the fact that the U.S. Mint has not been doing a very good job of giving distributors and secondary marketplace market makers like ourselves enough advance notice of specific information that is required for dealers like MCM and others to market the coins properly and in an orderly fashion. I am not trying to slam the U.S. Mint here or anyone for that matter, in fact the U.S. Mint does many things very well but it must be noted where nearly everyone is in agreement of their deficiencies. As a footnote, we are a very big customer of the U.S. Mint, both directly and indirectly, but we have yet to apply for distributorship.

We are doing our best to obtain the product and while some of our orders to purchase have been cancelled or are in limbo, we are certain that as long as the U.S. Mint ships we will have the coins to sell. The reality is that while the mint can determine mintages and initial pricing, they do not represent the larger marketplace that ultimately sets the prices based on supply and demand. At ModernCoinMart, we take many different factors into consideration to arrive at what we believe is a fair market retail price for the items we sell. One of these factors is obviously cost, but the ability to obtain additional product and the demand for the product are even more important. Competitor pricing is also a big factor. I expect many of you to experience “sticker shock” when we do offer these for sale but I hope by communicating with you in advance you will understand the intention is not to gouge customers but to simply have the product for those that wish to obtain it.

Our intention was to offer the coins both uncertified and certified and we had planned on obtaining a minimum of 1500 of each coin. This won’t happen. Because we will only get a fraction of what we wanted and will pay way, way, over the U.S. Mint selling price to distributors, it is likely that we will only be able to offer the coins certified but this is yet to be determined. Rather than being first to market with these we believe it prudent to take a conservative approach in allowing the smoke to clear first. Until the professional numismatic community can source coins in a manner that affords us appropriate, required, and reliable advance notice, we suspect a certain element of chaos will continue to exist with some products that can make markets somewhat disorderly. We will continue to do our best to offset this by acting with caution and in a manner that we believe will allow us to meet or exceed your expectations.

Sincerely,

John Maben
President & CEO
JMRC/ ModernCoinMart
5565 Broadcast Court
Sarasota, FL 34240

[/QUOTE]

 

I will only say, this is good news. Greedy Price Monger's . But be truthful, AMPEX is not the only such business to have done this. They simply have been for the most part the one referred to here. Please, I call upon all you to continue to contact the mint and let them know how displeased most of us are, with a selective release process which can do no other than promote price gouging .

 

Well so far from what I have heard APMEX has offered the lowest price so far... I placed an order with them and now I'm wondering if they end up getting them are they gonna send you the set plus a refund check? I wonder what kind of difference all this talk is really going to end up making, other then just delaying the program.

 

I rather think the Mint will scrap the program for the remainder of 2010. That is purely speculative on my part at best, but quite frankly I can't see how they can make the necessary revisions to the issuing provisions prior to year end, giving the work in session at this time.

 

The mint may have just restored some of my good feelings towards them with this press release….now only if the fulfillment center would pack the products better.

 

I agree whole heartedly! The mintage should be increased so more collectors can get their hands on them, and the mint should sell them directly. To do otherwise is pure madness…

 

Like the mail from ModernCoinMart said,
"There was no doubt in my mind that with a mintage of 33,000 per coin these coins would not be treated as “bullion” in the marketplace."

With that being said by an authorized bullion dealer, these should not be treated as bullion items, therefore I wish that the Mint would not sell them through bullion dealers, and add them to the US Mint site for sale as soon as possible. They had a chance to treat them as bullion and blew it.

 

The Mint has stated that it intends to produce both bullion and numismatic versions of these coins. The bullion will have a max mintage of 33,000 pieces and will be sold by authorized dealers. The numismatic versions will be sold directly by the US Mint to the public with a max mintage of 27,000 coins.

No word on whether the numismatic versions will be proof or "burnished" like the W mint ASEs. Either way, I do not see these being accepted as coins in the marketplace. They may be hyped as such initially, but the only interest that I can expect is speculation on silver exclusively.

the mintage of 33,000 is deceptive. the first spouses have 20,000 each and they are traded as bullion, not coins.

just my 2¢

 

I don't see the mintage being an issue at all - with the spouse coins really the biggest problem is that no one wants them anyway which is why they are traded as bullion. That and the fact they they are limited to 20,000 per spouse and there are how many? 40+? Not many people could afford to collect the whole set unlike these where are a few hundred bucks every few months and you can keep up easier then having to buy 2+ oz of gold each year.
Look at the UHR double eagle with 100,000 minted and nobody is selling those at melt...

 

For me, the issue with these coins is not the silver content, but the fact that they are, by all accounts, stunningly beautiful and realize the designs with enhanced detail in a way that a normal-sized quarter coin cannot. If I were interested only in silver bullion value, I would by ASE bullion coins or silver bars.

 

Just being off the wall here: Did the mint do this in order to take the heat off of em concerning the ASE proof stains? LOL Just tossing the thought out there!
Jon

 

Mike: An excellent point you've made in drawing a comparison to the FS mintages with these coins. I hadn't thought of that angel, thanks for sharing this idea.

 

Indeed, Mike makes a valid point. I can remember all the "hype" surrounding the Jefferson FS coin. One of the first posts that I made on this forum was devoted to my purchasing experiance regarding this coin. The hype regarding the FS series eventually died down and many of the initial issues were subsiquently melted for their bullion value. I suspect the same will eventually hold true for the America the Beautiful "disks" too........