2011 ASE 25th Anniversary Set (A25) - Order thread

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The part I made bold and green above addresses something that I have thought about in recent years regarding the distribution of popular Mint products. I believe the Mint does not understand it's customer base, not well enough, nor how large of a pool they are failing to reach.

A few ideas have occurred to me and continue to return each time I see something these manufactured low mintage sell outs occur. Time and again we see forums driving the hype and dealers eating us up. I think collectors react based on a trained marketing response that the Mint has taught us to behave through repeat sales tactics and using blogs, media and direct mail that tells us what to expect in upcoming releases. The rapid sell out of products becomes predictable (redundant to the point of craziness) and there's been a growing tendency for individual collectors to become speculators, of larger dealers with a greater national or even global reach (such as Modern Coin Mint, MintProducts.com and HSN.CoinVault, et al.) to gouge a path into our ways, much greater than that of brick and mortar dealers (even those with minimal online sales outlets and customers)-- this is to day that this pattern of sales is killing the modern coin market, no matter sell outs and how robust secondary dealers appear to be doing, just as much as would ensuring everyone gets one approach by never imposing mintage limits.

A rule of X-number per household is in literal-violation if addressed to anywhere but a residential address. The Mint ought first to enforce literally the terminology they themselves opt to use in sales materials and the online catalog. Therefore, no product goes discreetly to P.O. Boxes (UPS doesn't deliver to them anyway, they are a company that works more with businesses anyway, hint hint, that's where the coins are going-- to businesses no collectors households!), and not to any other address including shipping to ones work place address (technically with different credit card billing addresses even individuals could beat the Mint's ordering system without even asking friends and family to help.)

So what does this all mean? Everyone ends up trying to get some, many end up exploiting the system because they can, companies manage to take product marketed to and for, and meant to be sold directly to collectors. The Mint's online catalog is not intended to be an outlet for dealers to source their inventory from. That is why in great part we struggle with ordering from this web site more and more. The Mint keeps us on a leash for when we may buy and for when we may spend our money with them for these things. The Mint hardly respects us as customers as they allow us little to NO power over when we can buy new products, alienating some people on a budget or who are undecided, etc. It means that the system benefits no one in the end, especially when the end result incenses, irritates and disparages the very body of customers the Mint aimed to serve and the body of customers that dealers hope to profit from, collectors.

A system I have considered would better in serving all interested parties would also enable speculation based on unknowns in the mintage. It would allow a longer, but set window of opportunity for collectors and dealers alike to place any number of orders for any quantity of a given product so desired. A three, five or seven to ten day window of ordering ought to be standard for all new coin releases. When the window for ordering closes, no more orders may be received. The Mint goes to work producing and fulfilling all orders. Effectively, the site is only open for orders when new products become available and the site is not operating 24/7 in an e-commerce sense.

Later the Mint publishes reports of sales figures and then the mintage can be estimated for a product. Then also values can be figured out on the secondary market in sales. Values, as they should, can go either way. But either way, more people get what they want initially and from the source. If not many orders get placed for a given product which later on proves to be popular with collectors, said numismatic values increase and dealers do their thing when demand exists to profit from.

Under such a system, no household limits exist, all companies can acquire product enough to fill customer orders, and prices don't have to artifically blow up at the start only to decline a year or so afterward. Under such a system, orders may only be returned for credit towards future products and any returned coins are to be destroyed to avoid cherrypickers over ordering and returning products that are in turn fulfilled for successive orders. Kinks like this have to be figured out so inventory mainly moves in one direction and doesn't return. Coins received by customers who claim damage and return have to decide how terribly damaged was the coin if they can't easily obtain a replacement since the order opportunity window closed and the returned coin(s) will be destroyed, and funds locked up in your Mint account (potentially many thousands even, for a dealer/company) when a credit is applied...

So, fulfillment and mintage based on customer demand is the way I envision serving the entire community and balancing speculation as well as values in the immediate (and even pre-sale) aftermarket. The same potential for keys exists, but controlled only by the demand of the community that consumes the product to begin with.

If it were the case that individual collectors wouldn't want a particular product because everyone could have one and it was perceived as 'worthless' and cheaper on the secondary market the way it is now, then what does collecting really mean to you? Are you speculating and making an investment decision or a collecting decision based on admiration and appreciation as well as the enjoyment derived from the activity?

If the idea of minting on demand sounds odd to anyone and your argument is that the Mint can't be profitable from this sort of business model, then consider that what the Mint does everyday for the Federal Reserve. They mint coins on demand for ongoing orders from banks that need to be fulfilled. We regularly hear reports for mintages of circulating coins through our numismatic information channels. If it's thought collector products cannot be profitable in this manner, then as a collector demanding these collectible materials who are concerned with mintages and investment potential in collectible items, wouldn't the Mint make more money and limit mintage also by simply asking us, the individual collectors, to pay more for what we request.

Many people cannot fathom paying even more for these collectibles already significantly marked up, but with higher prices should come more customer demand for quality work, professional presentation, design and execution. Higher costs put more authority in the customer demanding more perfection in the fulfillment and care given in the product, uplifting the appeal and integrity of the product as well as protecting the hobby and it's intricacies of mintage statistics and valuations given. Higher cost doesn't have to mean some collectors are unable to access the product, it means collectors have to be more serious and intent on what they are buying as well as responsible for how much product they are ordering into existence and effectively consuming.

I'd ask collectors to consider a system of minting on demand, with limitations in place to expedite orderly fulfillment, limit over-production and raise the retail price to avoid pricing matrix issues as well as increasing quality, service and protecting mintage levels. All this while taking care of the core audience, the core-customer, the collector.

As it stands now dealers are breaking the backs of many a collector while the Mint is aiding and abetting the action simultaneously while permitting many individuals from avoiding such a fate because they are unable to get an order in when the Mint says you can spend your money. The Mint has to do more than fix their ordering snafus, indeed, they need a radically new model and if the hobby is to have a future for modern coinage, it needs a system in place that encourages and protects the consumers while rewarding them with superior quality work. IMO.

 

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dang krispy your are awake this morning! are your fingers tired? I STILL LIKE TO HAVE 1 SET

 

LOL! I'm a night owl and it's midnight over here. I'm still hanging in for my order to come through too, got 12/02 as the 'expect to ship date' right now, but I think I'm below 10k away from order fulfillment, I hope.

 

have you tried to talk with mint? can you over there?

 

I've called in and confirmed all of my order details. Just sitting tight and hoping my order didn't get in too late like the rest of us keeping the faith.

 

Hey Chris. Great post......

 

Thanks Ken, I know it's rather wordy.

 

It's a great idea, but in the area of commems, there have always been limits to coin production. The proposal is brought before congress and they set the limits.

 

ken ,
you have dealt with mint before you think they still have sets and we have a chance knowing what you know? or do the reps. just tell you what you want to hear???

 

yes and they often crank out too many for the sole attempt to raise money for a given issue via commemoration.

"For every season, change..." Change is good and perhaps even the commemorative program could be adapted to fit such a mint-to-demand structure. As it is, those writing the bills and carrying the power to vote also have as little connection to the coin community than do the Mint we often criticize and wish to see made more effective and of service to our hobby.

 

My coins arrived today.

HOWEVER there was NO sealed packaging!!! The blue box was packed at the bottom of a MUCH bigger plain brown box with a bunch of corrugated paper stuffed in the brown box as padding, I guess.

Has anyone else seen that? I am a bit disappointed not to have a sealed set. But I guess it is better than nothing, huh? :smile

BTW, I had one loose coin, outside its clear plastic case. Yep, of course it was the 2011-S mintmark. What the heck is up with that?

The mint really needs to get its act together IMO.

 

You have an interesting idea. Bscially, the Mint would operate on a subscription-based model where they fill subscriptions. It sounds pretty good for collectors; not sure how well it would work for the Mint itself. For example, if 1 million orders were placed for these sets instead of only 100,000, do they have sufficient silver stocks to meet that demand for 5 million coins (given that they supposedly didn't have enough silver available to sell proof eagles in 2009)? I don't know, but I just note that your post seems to address it from one particular viewpoint (collectors) without apparently considering the "other side of the coin."

Personally, I like the fact that they have the occasional "albino Tiger" item that is is limited and hard to get. The chase is part of the fun for me. It would be a bit more boring to me if there were no "lower" mintage items like the 1995-W; 2006 Reverse Proofs; 2011 Reverse Proofs; etc. If I am not always able to get everything I want from the Mint . . . that is a price I am willing to pay for a little increased excitement.

But if they changed to your system, I guess I would be OK with that, too.

JMO.

 

I think the outer plain brown box IS/was your sealed packaging.....

 

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. But I cannot understand why they would be so wasteful and use an 8 inch by 11 inch by 15 inch box together with a ton of corrugated paper padding for this much smaller coin set. They don't do that on the regular porrof or mint coin sets where the brown box is just a wee bit bigger than the packaging inside. And if they thought this was somehow going to protect the coins, well that was a giant FAIL as my 2011-S was floating around inside the blue box outside its clear plastic holder.

Honestly, there was nothing on this box that indicated to me it was from the mint and it was so big, and I had three other packages delivered with it, so it just never even occurred to me that this box had my coins.

Oh well, my bad. Live and learn!

 

In stock and reserved!

My order, 38379xxx, placed at 5:06 pm, is in stock and reserved!

I had placed an order for 5 sets.

To say I'm thrilled is an understatement!

Hopefully this gives hope for those still waiting.

 

They can charge the Mint MORE when they use bigger box, and more stuffed paper means more weight, that will be charged more too.

 

Grrrrrrrreat ! The mint is not yet done. I believe this is the first movement since Tuesday.
38378xxx 5:02 should be delivered
38378xxx 5:04 ditto

38379xxx 5:06 in stock and reserved 11-18-11

Alright javail, the "good Karma" I wished you worked! Everyone else keep the faith.

 

my order is still in process placed at 5:10 38379xxx should bee close javail what was next digit if you dont mind like to see how close pm me if you don't care thanks wish i had that news??????????

 

My "xxx" digits are all VERY low in the -9000 series. I don't want to give out too many more specifics as to my order number, if that's okay.

Hope that helps.

Best of luck! I hope that 4 minutes isn't make or break for you.

Fingers crossed. Please keep us posted.

 

anyone ELSE GET GOOD NEWS? BY THE WAY IF ANYONE WANTS TO SELL ME A SET AND MAKE 100.00 I WILL JUST WANT 1 SET THAT'S ALL:yes: ANYONE THAT IS A COLLECTOR KNOWS HOW I AM FEELING RIGHT NOW WILL TRADE GOT MANY COINS TO TRADE WITH JUST PM ME THANKS ALL COME ON MINT HELP!