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1984 Engelhard Prospector's - Fakes or Real? My Recent Journey...(Long Alert).
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<p>[QUOTE="Ethan, post: 1935347, member: 68800"]I was on vacation this weekend and decided that there was nothing I wanted to buy until we stopped in a jewelry store to look at some watches for my son. I of course asked them if they had any Silver, junk or bullion. Well they had some Prospectors, 1984 with the Big E Reverse. I only had one in my collection, a 1984 with the Eagle Reverse. Looking at these things, they were perfect as in they looked like they just came off the press. I asked the price and was told these come with premiums, so he wanted $24 for each. He had 20 or so. I know that is too much but there is no tax on bullion in that state so I decided to go ahead and get two. First I asked for his scale as I had heard there were some fakes out there. We took the two that I picked out to a scale and each was 31.1g. Exactly what they needed to be and I knew the fakes that were out there were 21g. I asked also to flip them and they sounded right. So I bought them and proceeded on my way.</p><p><br /></p><p>That is until I got to the motel room and used my phone's internet to do a little digging. That is when I found out that there was a second generation of them out there. These 1984's are in the weight tolerance but thicker. I was worried and then kept flipping it to 'hear' what it sounded like. After about an hour of reading and flipping I had convinced myself they were fake. The fakes look proof and yet mine did not, MS67+ yes but not proof. So I then convinced myself I would not go back and ask for a refund and would take my lumps if they were fake. I needed to wait till I got home to double check these guys.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>This is going to be a long thread but hopefully someone will use there GoogleFoo and use what I have found as a reference in the future.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here is a thread on Kitco that tells of the first generation of these with pictures,</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?104525-Fake-Engelhard-Prospector-Silver-Rounds-Thread" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?104525-Fake-Engelhard-Prospector-Silver-Rounds-Thread" rel="nofollow">https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?104525-Fake-Engelhard-Prospector-Silver-Rounds-Thread</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Here is another with pictures,</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?20814-Buy-an-Engelhard-Prospector-round-recently" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?20814-Buy-an-Engelhard-Prospector-round-recently" rel="nofollow">http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?20814-Buy-an-Engelhard-Prospector-round-recently</a></p><p><br /></p><p>And of course here is a thread on CoinTalk that covers the subject also,</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://www.cointalk.com/threads/counterfeit-999-silver-prospectors-warning.202941/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.cointalk.com/threads/counterfeit-999-silver-prospectors-warning.202941/">http://www.cointalk.com/threads/counterfeit-999-silver-prospectors-warning.202941/</a></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I know this is not what I have so I had to dig deeper.....Here was one particular post with lots of information and some of the details I sought out,</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=900129" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=900129" rel="nofollow">http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=900129</a></p><p><br /></p><p>In this one is a picture that helped me a lot.....This was exactly what I was after...as mine were not proofs per se but they were much much nicer than I the one I already had.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/rawteam1/prospectorfake_zpsdf1e83a9.png" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>So armed with this information, I got home and did some verification. First a picture of what I bought. Keep in mind that I have at least flipped it 50 times listening and thinking so this one is not pristine anymore but the other is.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s8.postimg.org/5aotvom91/1984_E_Rev_01.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://s8.postimg.org/3lkc1cvxh/1984_E_Rev_02.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Notice the right hand thumb, this was missing on some of the fakes, well I thought I was ok. That was until I read the 2nd generation fixed that issue. They also fixed the gap in the circle around the E on the Reverse. The Chinese are getting very good.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here is a link to what they are selling now, notice the right thumb.....fixed.</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/USA-The-America-Prospector-One-Troy_1130992142.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/USA-The-America-Prospector-One-Troy_1130992142.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/USA-The-America-Prospector-One-Troy_1130992142.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s7.postimg.org/7yz8ax8zf/Fakes.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The dots around the reverse are further away/spaced from the side but without one to compare to in hand, it would be hard to be sure.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>So here is what mine looked like with the tools that I have, WEIGHT : CHECK</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s27.postimg.org/5j0e3esar/1984_E_Rev_03_Weight.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>DIAMETER : CHECK</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s12.postimg.org/6joddgf7h/1984_E_Rev_Diameter.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>THICKNESS : CHECK >>>> This was my worry as the new fakes are just a wee bit thicker.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s22.postimg.org/credamqoh/1984_E_Rev_Thickness.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>So this has me feeling better now but I wanted to check it against my other one, and so I did..</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s27.postimg.org/hddnhjdtv/1984_Eagle_Rev01.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://s9.postimg.org/6rp3s6ttr/1984_Eagle_Rev02.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://s22.postimg.org/jmxn3gas1/1984_Eagle_Rev03_Weight.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://s18.postimg.org/7r83pon6h/1984_Eagle_Rev_Diameter.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://s30.postimg.org/unmt33a41/1984_Eagle_Rev_Thickness.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>At this point I am convinced that what I had purchased is real. I paid too much for it but I never come across these and I will NOT buy them from eBay unless I know the seller. I know some sellers that could be fooled by these new ones. There is not much talk about them anymore and I think some would be embarrassed to admit they got burned, I just do not know.</p><p><br /></p><p>However I think the two I purchased are real, at least everything I can see leads to that conclusion.</p><p>They even pass my neodymium magnet test. I thought I got burned but I got lucky and in the process I educated myself much better on these.</p><p><br /></p><p>I hope this was interesting and helpful to someone.</p><p><br /></p><p>Ethan</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Oh, one last thing, I wasn't sure about my scale as these new ones are 31.1g or so. I check them and they are good.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>50 grams</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s18.postimg.org/sin8ytqop/Scale50g.jpghttp://s18.postimg.org/sin8ytqop/Scale50g.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>100 grams</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://s27.postimg.org/zf6fq73k3/Scale100g.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Ethan, post: 1935347, member: 68800"]I was on vacation this weekend and decided that there was nothing I wanted to buy until we stopped in a jewelry store to look at some watches for my son. I of course asked them if they had any Silver, junk or bullion. Well they had some Prospectors, 1984 with the Big E Reverse. I only had one in my collection, a 1984 with the Eagle Reverse. Looking at these things, they were perfect as in they looked like they just came off the press. I asked the price and was told these come with premiums, so he wanted $24 for each. He had 20 or so. I know that is too much but there is no tax on bullion in that state so I decided to go ahead and get two. First I asked for his scale as I had heard there were some fakes out there. We took the two that I picked out to a scale and each was 31.1g. Exactly what they needed to be and I knew the fakes that were out there were 21g. I asked also to flip them and they sounded right. So I bought them and proceeded on my way. That is until I got to the motel room and used my phone's internet to do a little digging. That is when I found out that there was a second generation of them out there. These 1984's are in the weight tolerance but thicker. I was worried and then kept flipping it to 'hear' what it sounded like. After about an hour of reading and flipping I had convinced myself they were fake. The fakes look proof and yet mine did not, MS67+ yes but not proof. So I then convinced myself I would not go back and ask for a refund and would take my lumps if they were fake. I needed to wait till I got home to double check these guys. This is going to be a long thread but hopefully someone will use there GoogleFoo and use what I have found as a reference in the future. Here is a thread on Kitco that tells of the first generation of these with pictures, [url]https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?104525-Fake-Engelhard-Prospector-Silver-Rounds-Thread[/url] Here is another with pictures, [url]http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?20814-Buy-an-Engelhard-Prospector-round-recently[/url] And of course here is a thread on CoinTalk that covers the subject also, [url]http://www.cointalk.com/threads/counterfeit-999-silver-prospectors-warning.202941/[/url] I know this is not what I have so I had to dig deeper.....Here was one particular post with lots of information and some of the details I sought out, [url]http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=900129[/url] In this one is a picture that helped me a lot.....This was exactly what I was after...as mine were not proofs per se but they were much much nicer than I the one I already had. [IMG]http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/rawteam1/prospectorfake_zpsdf1e83a9.png[/IMG] So armed with this information, I got home and did some verification. First a picture of what I bought. Keep in mind that I have at least flipped it 50 times listening and thinking so this one is not pristine anymore but the other is. [IMG]http://s8.postimg.org/5aotvom91/1984_E_Rev_01.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s8.postimg.org/3lkc1cvxh/1984_E_Rev_02.jpg[/IMG] Notice the right hand thumb, this was missing on some of the fakes, well I thought I was ok. That was until I read the 2nd generation fixed that issue. They also fixed the gap in the circle around the E on the Reverse. The Chinese are getting very good. Here is a link to what they are selling now, notice the right thumb.....fixed. [url]http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/USA-The-America-Prospector-One-Troy_1130992142.html[/url] [IMG]http://s7.postimg.org/7yz8ax8zf/Fakes.jpg[/IMG] The dots around the reverse are further away/spaced from the side but without one to compare to in hand, it would be hard to be sure. So here is what mine looked like with the tools that I have, WEIGHT : CHECK [IMG]http://s27.postimg.org/5j0e3esar/1984_E_Rev_03_Weight.jpg[/IMG] DIAMETER : CHECK [IMG]http://s12.postimg.org/6joddgf7h/1984_E_Rev_Diameter.jpg[/IMG] THICKNESS : CHECK >>>> This was my worry as the new fakes are just a wee bit thicker. [IMG]http://s22.postimg.org/credamqoh/1984_E_Rev_Thickness.jpg[/IMG] So this has me feeling better now but I wanted to check it against my other one, and so I did.. [IMG]http://s27.postimg.org/hddnhjdtv/1984_Eagle_Rev01.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s9.postimg.org/6rp3s6ttr/1984_Eagle_Rev02.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s22.postimg.org/jmxn3gas1/1984_Eagle_Rev03_Weight.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s18.postimg.org/7r83pon6h/1984_Eagle_Rev_Diameter.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s30.postimg.org/unmt33a41/1984_Eagle_Rev_Thickness.jpg[/IMG] At this point I am convinced that what I had purchased is real. I paid too much for it but I never come across these and I will NOT buy them from eBay unless I know the seller. I know some sellers that could be fooled by these new ones. There is not much talk about them anymore and I think some would be embarrassed to admit they got burned, I just do not know. However I think the two I purchased are real, at least everything I can see leads to that conclusion. They even pass my neodymium magnet test. I thought I got burned but I got lucky and in the process I educated myself much better on these. I hope this was interesting and helpful to someone. Ethan Oh, one last thing, I wasn't sure about my scale as these new ones are 31.1g or so. I check them and they are good. 50 grams [IMG]http://s18.postimg.org/sin8ytqop/Scale50g.jpghttp://s18.postimg.org/sin8ytqop/Scale50g.jpg[/IMG] 100 grams [IMG]http://s27.postimg.org/zf6fq73k3/Scale100g.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
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