1984 Engelhard Prospector's - Fakes or Real? My Recent Journey...(Long Alert).

I was on vacation this weekend and decided that there was nothing I wanted to buy until we stopped in a jewelry store to look at some watches for my son. I of course asked them if they had any Silver, junk or bullion. Well they had some Prospectors, 1984 with the Big E Reverse. I only had one in my collection, a 1984 with the Eagle Reverse. Looking at these things, they were perfect as in they looked like they just came off the press. I asked the price and was told these come with premiums, so he wanted $24 for each. He had 20 or so. I know that is too much but there is no tax on bullion in that state so I decided to go ahead and get two. First I asked for his scale as I had heard there were some fakes out there. We took the two that I picked out to a scale and each was 31.1g. Exactly what they needed to be and I knew the fakes that were out there were 21g. I asked also to flip them and they sounded right. So I bought them and proceeded on my way.

That is until I got to the motel room and used my phone's internet to do a little digging. That is when I found out that there was a second generation of them out there. These 1984's are in the weight tolerance but thicker. I was worried and then kept flipping it to 'hear' what it sounded like. After about an hour of reading and flipping I had convinced myself they were fake. The fakes look proof and yet mine did not, MS67+ yes but not proof. So I then convinced myself I would not go back and ask for a refund and would take my lumps if they were fake. I needed to wait till I got home to double check these guys.


This is going to be a long thread but hopefully someone will use there GoogleFoo and use what I have found as a reference in the future.

Here is a thread on Kitco that tells of the first generation of these with pictures,

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?104525-Fake-Engelhard-Prospector-Silver-Rounds-Thread

Here is another with pictures,

http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?20814-Buy-an-Engelhard-Prospector-round-recently

And of course here is a thread on CoinTalk that covers the subject also,

http://www.cointalk.com/threads/counterfeit-999-silver-prospectors-warning.202941/


I know this is not what I have so I had to dig deeper.....Here was one particular post with lots of information and some of the details I sought out,

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=42&threadid=900129

In this one is a picture that helped me a lot.....This was exactly what I was after...as mine were not proofs per se but they were much much nicer than I the one I already had.





So armed with this information, I got home and did some verification. First a picture of what I bought. Keep in mind that I have at least flipped it 50 times listening and thinking so this one is not pristine anymore but the other is.




Notice the right hand thumb, this was missing on some of the fakes, well I thought I was ok. That was until I read the 2nd generation fixed that issue. They also fixed the gap in the circle around the E on the Reverse. The Chinese are getting very good.

Here is a link to what they are selling now, notice the right thumb.....fixed.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/USA-The-America-Prospector-One-Troy_1130992142.html




The dots around the reverse are further away/spaced from the side but without one to compare to in hand, it would be hard to be sure.


So here is what mine looked like with the tools that I have, WEIGHT : CHECK



DIAMETER : CHECK



THICKNESS : CHECK >>>> This was my worry as the new fakes are just a wee bit thicker.



So this has me feeling better now but I wanted to check it against my other one, and so I did..







At this point I am convinced that what I had purchased is real. I paid too much for it but I never come across these and I will NOT buy them from eBay unless I know the seller. I know some sellers that could be fooled by these new ones. There is not much talk about them anymore and I think some would be embarrassed to admit they got burned, I just do not know.

However I think the two I purchased are real, at least everything I can see leads to that conclusion.
They even pass my neodymium magnet test. I thought I got burned but I got lucky and in the process I educated myself much better on these.

I hope this was interesting and helpful to someone.

Ethan


Oh, one last thing, I wasn't sure about my scale as these new ones are 31.1g or so. I check them and they are good.


50 grams



100 grams

 

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Thanks good thread . Isn't anything sacred to the Chinese ? I didn't know they faked too many silver rounds , but I usually buy 90% silver coins or ASE . I sure hope they pass that anti counterfeiting law , but more importantly enforce it .

 

Those 1st generation fakes were pretty bad . Do you have any pics of the 2nd gen. fakes ?

 

I do not but the links do. Here is the one that made the most sense..Notice the thickness. Some weighed right at 31.1g;




And then this..

All found in the following thread...


http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?20814-Buy-an-Engelhard-Prospector-round-recently

 

Crap... I spent about $1000 a couple years ago on some prospector rounds... im pretty sure they looked frosted... I don't have a scale to weigh them... but I bought them from a local coin dealer... surely they arent fake are they? :/ I'm gonna have to get them out... got some that were Eagles too... are there counterfeit eagle ones?

 

And what would you do if they are fake? I doubt I can find a receipt for them and I paid cash... kinda worried now....

 

Good thread. I have a few of these purchased many years ago, and they are the real deal. TC

 

Most likely you are fine....but I would check... A cheap scale is $10 on the bay.

 

Gonna take them to a different dealer today and see if he can verify if they are or not. I do want to get a scale that measures .01 grams but I'e had a hard time finding any. Maybe my dealer can tell me where to get one of those.

 

Heres mine. What do you guys think?

 

Mine are real!!!! YAY!!!! I was gonna throw up if they weren't!!

 

I think these are real.

 

I don't have any of the Engelhard silver rounds but I have one in gold that is mounted in a ring. It was minted in 1987 and does not have the big "E" on the back of it. It has the eagle instead.

I had no idea that Engelhard made so few of the gold rounds. Mine is 1/10 Troy ounce 999.9 fine gold . While searching for value information on my coin ring, I've become interested in collecting the silver Engelhard rounds but from your post, I'm a bit more concerned about having to worry about counterfeits. Your detailed post is very much appreciated and will remind me to keep my guard up if I choose to start collecting the Engelhard rounds.

 

Fyi ones in good condition like mine are beautiful!

 

I am really new at silver. I loved the look of the prospectors and ordered 20 online from Provident. Do I have to worry about fakes when I order from well know companies? I also am wondering if there is a place to learn about Engelhard Prospectors over the years, mine don't have dates and backs are pretty but different from examples above. I'd like to start picking up one of each... if I only knew what one of each is Internet isn't being helpful.

 

Always buying from a reputable dealer is "KEY" to not being scammed !
JM Bullion, APMEX always spot on and never the need to be concerned