$15 Trillion in 5 Days

Mathematics isn't subject to opinion. I gave you hard numbers from the BLS on earnings in this country after you asked for it. In fact, I asked you to resolve the numbers. Your response was to ignore them and then head down the irrelevant distraction path. Calling it an opinion doesn't change it.

There is no way to pay back the debt and it's growing faster than our ability to handle it. I've given the proof above.

In regards to opinions. Sure everyone has one. In my case the results of the economy support what I have said.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

You've given no such proof, only your opinion of what a particular measure means. "There is no way to pay back the debt" is pure opinion, your opinionated analysis. National debt isn't repaid in the way you are hyperventilating about. You hypocritically talk about misusing statistics when you do the same.

 

I didn't say this. Try re-reading the post. My response was in regards to this:

"....don't you think the global market would have caught on to that? It's at a dangerous level, but not yet an impassable disaster."[/intent] You brought the "markets" into this as a false argument. i.e. logical fallacy that because the "market's have not noticed, then you must be wrong. very similar to your earlier statement "economists don't uses absolute numbers so you are worng"..

You really don't seem serious about having a discussion on this issue.​

 

OK, lets try it again. This isn't an opinion. Take note of the underlined part. If you can explain how this gets paid back, I'd be interested in hearing it.

 

The debt has been over 100% of total earnings and GDP before. Simply, your assertion that it cannot be repaid is opinion.

I'd better leave cointalk.

 

Hey no need to hightail it ctrl. There's never a shortage of opinions. I can think of a quote about opinions that isn't appropriate, but would apply quite well =) You just have to walk away from a conversation when it's no longer productive. IMO the debt can always be repaid, because the word can means 'able to'. What's unlikely is that the decisions necessary in order for it to be repaid without devaluing the money supply to do so will be made.

 

I agree that we are certainly finding people to buy our debt. Probably because Europe and Japan are in even worse straits. I still believe that at some point the US "credit limit" will be reached. No one knows what that point is, but should we recklessly push the issue and find out?

Also, 15 trillion was reached earlier today.

 

One more time, the numbers I provided were not GDP, but real earnings of the people of this country. I've asked you to explain why my opinion is wrong based on the numbers I gave and you are unable to do so. It's one thing to draw a conclusion base on absolute math, it's quite another to draw an opinion based on conjecture.

Whether you leave cointalk or not is your decision which doesn't have anything to do with what is being discussed. You can't dismiss the math as "an opinion", as "irrelevant because leading economists don't do it", as "anything else not having to do with the topic". The math wins every time.

 

Why do you assume, "Debt is nothing more than a future claim on labor"? Where did that come from? That is the basis of that argument, and its a false premise. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Therefor any math based upon that supposition is equally flawed.

Please expand on how debt has any tie to Labor.

 

It seems that I should have been more detailed. I am referring to the debt represented by the Federal Reserve Note $.

 

But that debt is almost meaningless in terms of overall US debt. So I guess I still don't get it.

 

This makes no sense. The US debt is expressed in dollars.

 

If you do not understnad that US Dollars is much MUCH larger than FRN's, and how FRN's are a tiny fraction of US Dollars around the world, then I guess I simply do not know where to start.

Yes, the debt is in dollars, but it is not expressed in FRN's. FRN's are simply small change compared to overall dollars of debt. Banks transfer billions of US dollars every day, and if a physical piece of paper is passed you can bet it is not FRN's. The US Treasury controls the US Dollar, not the Fed Reserve.

 

Go and pull a dollar bill out of your wallet and look at what is printed on it. You will see "Federal Reserve Note". It's the only type of dollar in existence now. $ = FRN.

 

Again, if you believe printed currency matters, then I am sorry sir but I do not believe you understand the true nature of what a US dollar is. Around the world the "dollar" is US Treasury instruments. Talking about the US Dollar and bringing up Federal Reserve Notes is absurd. I am sorry Fatima but if all of your arguments here are assuming FRN matter in terms of the US Dollar, then I do not thik you truly grasp the situation. FRN are playthings for tiny transactions, its like saying one cent pieces are all that matter when the rest of the world trades $100 bills back and forth.

Chris

 

The Federal Reserve creates new dollars conjured up in cyberspace. If any of it is to be printed and thus be represented by a FRN then the Treasury does it for them. It makes no difference other than that one medium is digital and one is physical.

http://www.ny.frb.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed01.html

Disclaimer: This site says '2008' at the bottom so the $829 billion number is probably inaccurate. Point being, more dollars are in digital form than otherwise.


I am curious however, is all dollar denominated debt only based on FRN's? Why would this not include digital currency?

 

Yes, all debt is denominated in USD which, as of 1971, is defined as the Federal Reserve Note. There are no longer any US Treasury dollars issued, not since 1971. Anyone possessing one of these notes would not redeem it at face value because the numismatic value is a lot more.

I am not sure what you mean by digital currency.

 

You are so far out there, I'm not even going to try. Sorry.

 

This is at the heart of your misunderstanding with Chris. When the Federal Reserve creates money all they do is punch numbers into a computer. *poof* money in the account. It is only at the behest of the US Treasury wanting this money to be printed in physical form that it becomes a FRN.