Hello everyone and welcome to Round 2 of the 2018 CoinTalk Imperator Tournament! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun in the master thread; https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ancients-it’s-time-the-second-annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/ A big thank you to all of our participants. Without further ado… ............................................................ #14 @iamtiberius PERSIA, Alexandrine Empire. temp. Stamenes – Seleukos. Satraps of Babylon, circa 328-311 BC. AR Double Shekel (21.5mm, 16.84 g, 7h). Baal seated left, holding scepter; monogram to left / Lion walking left; Γ above. Nicolet-Pierre 84. VF, toned. From the George Bernert Collection. Price: $414 Why it’s Cool: The Coin: This Double Shekel is the epitome of Babylon. At a bold 5.5 mm thick, this is one of my most satisfying coins to handle. It's one of my go to's to let friends and family examine when the topic of ancients rears its head; with the depiction of Baal on the obverse and the famous "passing lion" on the reverse. The lion is close in style and depiction to the famous Ishtar Gate, in Babylon, constructed during Nebuchadnezzar II's reign, some 250 years before, circa 605-562 BC. (We've got the gold tones, just missing some blues.) Note that Baal's depiction on the obverse is a close, if not exact, representation of Zeus (Even closer than the contemporary Cilician representation found on their staters) as compared to the pharaonic-esque, head dress wearing, skinnier personification seen during the bronze ages. P. Iossif and C. Lorber in “Marduk and the Lion: A Hoard of Babylonian Lion Staters" attempted to place my specific example as being issued during Seleukos' reign as Satrap, with the lambda above the lion. However, the object/symbol in left field on the obverse throws a wrench in their deductive spokes of research as my specific example may not be a hoard find along with the rest of the lambdas. It seems researchers play it safe by giving us a broader range of possible Satraps as "Stamenes - Seleukos." The History: The city of Babylon was huge by ancient standards and was one of the most important cities of antiquity. It was split in two by the Euphrates river and located just south of modern day Baghdad. As the most important city of ancient Mesopotamia it was the victim of its fair share of conquests and sieges throughout its 2000 year history. Alexander's Hellenistic push east was no exception. On October 1st, 331 BC, Alexander met Darius III at Gaugamela, modern day Northern Iraq. Mazaeus, was the current Satrap of Babylon under Darius III and accompanied his king in battle, holding the Right Wing of the Persian Army. After Darius III's retreat, the Persian defense quickly collapsed and Mazaeus was forced to retreat; leaving nothing in between Alexander and Babylon. On the short road to Babylon, Alexander sent a message to Mazaeus, stating Babylon would not be pillaged or raised. With that, Mazaeus surrendered Babylon to Alexander. Alexander entered peacefully. During his time there, he became acquainted and impressed with Mazaeus, letting him retain his title under the Macedonian Empire, over Babylon. It is thought during this time, or perhaps the year prior to Alexander's conquest of Babylon, that the Baal seated, lion passing left design was introduced. Fast forward 8 years. Death defeats Alexander; leaving the Diadochi (Alexander's successors/generals) in political shambles. Which, of course, lead to war. Seleukos initially supported Perdiccas as Supreme Commander over The Army, but Perdiccas' poor military leadership and performance against Ptolemy in Egypt lead to a mutiny and his eventual assassination (orchestrated by Seleukos). After this, Antipater made Seleukos regent of Babylon and it is possible that my coin could have been minted at this time. However, Seleukos was soon made to flee and was only able to return 9 years later under Ptolemy's blessing in 312 BC. After his return to Babylon Seleukos began to effect his absolute domination of the East; sparking the beginning and expansion of the Seleucid Empire. The Babylonian Double Shekel was an anomaly in a time when the rest of the Hellenized world was full of the standard Herakles or Alexander portrait types. This design would be retained and stay in production until, or around, the death of Seleukos, circa 281 BC. ............................................................ #30 @TheRed Class 1c 1279 AD London mint. 18mm 1.42g Obv: EDW REX ANGL' DNS HYB; Crowned facing bust. Rev: CIVI TAS LON DON; Long cross three pellets in each quarter. SCBC 1382 Price: $179 Why It’s Cool: The Voided Long-Cross pennies of Henry III in circulation in England had become worn, clipped, and were generally in poor condition. Edward’s administration undertook a radical recoinage and produced a new penny unlike anything minted in England before and would set the pattern of English coinage for 200 years. The appearance of the penny was greatly improved as compared to the short and voided long cross pennies of the old monarchs. Previously the images of the kings were made up of pellets, crescents, and strokes from a very limited range of punches used to engrave the dies. With Edward’s new coinage more advanced punches with well rendered features were used that gave the penny a higher artistic quality and more life-like portrait. The legends of the penny also changed. Previously, the legend named the king, such as HENRICVS REX III, but with the new penny the legend expanded greatly. On the reverse,the name of the moneyer associated with each mint was removed from the penny. Instead, the name of the mint was all that was present. This was a radical change, as the moneyer’s name had appeared on the English penny since the 8th century when Offa first introduced the coin. The new penny of Edward was a great success in England and was much admired throughout norther Europe where England had strong economic ties due to the wool trade. The English penny was of high quality and fine silver, unlike much of the coinage of the continent which was debased. Merchants from Flanders, Brabant, Hainaut, and other regions wanted the new English penny to conduct trade with England. In response, continental mints began producing their own copies. These coins, which became known as crockards and pollards, were often debased and lackedhigh silver content of their English rivals. ............................................................ A Gentle Reminder Round 1 went about as well as anyone could have hoped from the perspective of keeping the commentary fun, interesting and friendly. It would be a challenge to run a tournament of this type on almost any other board but with the great people here on CT it has been both an honor and a pleasure. Lets try to keep up with the perfect score in the friendliness department by concentrating comments on why you liked an entry instead of why you didn't like the other. Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the thread for comments, opinions, coin pile-ons and random posting of coin things as you see fit.
Both great coins, but that Persian double Shekel is an absolute winner, great toning and detail. Both coins have a good solid history interest.
Fantastic coins guys! I am not a collector of Medieval but dang that one is nice! The double shekel is also a beauty. Eye appeal is going to be hard, as well as trying to figure out a best bargain, as they're outside of my focus.
I love both of these coins. I think Edward I might just be suffering a bit of a Round 1 hangover after celebrating his victory Edward I is probably the most interesting King of England and one of the most interesting rulers ever in my opinion. He was known for being physically strong and when he was on Crusade he was attacked by one of the Syrian branch of the Nizari Ismailis (the famous assassins) and despite getting stabbed with a poisoned dagger he was able to knock the assassin out and stab him in the head He also negotiated with Mongols and built some of the coolest architecture in Great Britain! I still think you can pull this one out @TheRed ! You just need to do like I suggested and go with a well timed Mel Gibson meme... Of course I also love the Double Shekel. If I could build a time machine that could only visit 3 ancient cities I think I would pick Rome, Athens and Babylon!
@TheRed I'm going to have to pick up the "HENRICVS III" version. I have a 3 week old. We named him Henricus. I tried to spell it Henricvs, but my wife caught me filling out the birth certificate.
I'm afraid the lion is eating poor Edward alive, but both coins are tremedous. I would love that penny in my british coins collection anytime Q
Indeed! My collection is woefully short on medieval coins. Reds Edward would be a fantastic addition to any collection.
If you haven't had a chance to weigh in on this match up you still have a chance. The polls will close in about 4 hours.
Another fun match comes to a close. Results #14 @iamtiberius - 116 Winner #30 @TheRed - 52 TheRed fielded a great coin with tons of medieval history behind it but iamtiberiu's majestic lion Double Shekel comes out on top on the score board. A big thank you to both of our players! @iamtiberius will advance to Round 3 to take on the winner of the @panzerman vs @Severus Alexander match in what promises to be an absolutely EPIC collision! I can't wait to see it... stay tuned.
Congrats on the resounding win @iamtiberius that is an amazing stater/double shekel of Babylon. I would love to add one to my Seleucid collection some day. I find it funny that my coin from my favorite collecting area was beaten by a coin from my second favorite collecting area. Congratulations on your son. I love the name! If you are looking for a coin of Henry, I would recommend a Voided Long-Cross penny of Henry III. They are fairly inexpensive and have some very nice portraits. Here is an example from London that cost under $100. Henry III AR Voided Long-Cross type penny, class Vb2. 1251/2-1252 AD London mint. 18mm 1.46g Obv: hENRICVSREX III, Crowned facing bust, holding scepter. Rev: NICOLЄ OH LVND, voided long cross, with trefoil in each quarter. Nicholas of St. Albans, moneyer. North 992/2; SCBC 1368A
