Zeus Numismatics

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Napata, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Mine arrived today after coronavirus limbo.

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  3. Ignoramus Maximus

    Ignoramus Maximus Nomen non est omen.

    Congratulations! Meanwhile, I'm still waiting...
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  4. Napata

    Napata Active Member

    Wowzers!

    This thread has exploded in popularity and the mixed opinion helps in reducing my concerns...a bit. A wee bit.

    Their website is among the reasons consolidating my worries. It is more than makeshift as the provided information is dubious. For instance, the "About Us" page contains fake information, obsolete at best. The back office manager, Mirjan Abadi, is represented by a stock photo of a businessman. As for the personal emails of the staff, they do not exist.

    colton@zeusnumismatics.com
    albertson@zeusnumismatics.com
    mccarty@zeusnumismatics.com
    abadi@zeusnumismatics.com
    vartanyan@zeusnumismatics.com


    In fact, I suspect the reason some believe Zeus Numismatics is tied to Ares Numismatics stems from the numismatist himself. In fact, all the listed staff of Zeus Numismatics is identical to Ares Numismatics'. I contacted Ares Numismatics and they confirmed to me they have nothing to do with Zeus Numismatics. I think the dealer of Zeus Numismatics just copied the info from Ares Numismatics website to add credibility.

    [​IMG]

    This is a proper creepypasta to horrify any coin collector.

    Sadly, we ain't the ones to choose whereto rarities will land. Some lesser known coins of extreme rarities end up in the hands of obscure coin dealers. For instance, I will never forgive myself missing out the Owl Tetradrachm with the Persian Great King head at the owl's foot. The winning bid at Naville Numismatics was like 300 GBP. So extreme is the rarity I don't think I have found another example beyond the examples in published papers.

    Not hating on the one man show fo' sho'! He appears to even deal with an IT company as his PayPal address hints it. However, you gotta make the effort to acknowledge a payment, especially after few months. Plus, I like the selection of consigned coins he has. I also reassured him I had no problem waiting due to the current pandemic. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures. As of now, the payment on Biddr is still stated as "Checkout Completed" and not "Paid". I got the Paypal receipt, so it must have reached him. I care more about the coin than the invested money.

    Gosh! Y'all making me sweat heavily. I am waiting for a coin I have not seen listed online for more than once....in a decade. What if I receive it smashed. My heart won't take it...
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
  5. nicholasz219

    nicholasz219 Well-Known Member

    @Napata

    I think that everyone here hopes for the best outcome for both you and anyone else who buys there. I agree that sometimes coins you want end up in the hands of dealers you would rather not deal with. So all you can do is ignore those coins or hold your nose and deal with it.

    I would pay only with PayPal or a credit card so if your items arrive damaged or not at all you have recourse to get your money back. I firmly believe that your coins will arrive in time but the worry and annoyance may or may not be worth it.

    I hate people who don’t return correspondence. It makes me totally crazy. Especially if I am giving you money. I’m not dismissing those complaints at all because I have the same complaints.

    Given the probable language barrier and the shady looking at best copying of Ares’ staff info, we may all have to start ignoring his auctions.
     
  6. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    The coins from the Prime 5 auction finally arrived today !!! All four coins in one bag. Now, despite the unanswered emails, there is hope to get the coins won on April 11 at their Budget auction 6 :)
    84C0B714-31C4-461E-A81F-47F701346DAE.jpeg
     
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  7. sterlingfox

    sterlingfox New Member

    Mine arrived a few days ago as well. All 8 coins smashed into a tiny bag. Sadly, one of those coins was damaged as a result of such poor packaging. I'll be contacting Zeus to see what they're willing to do, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
     
  8. Aleph

    Aleph Well-Known Member

    Anyone not get 2 Byzantine follises from the March auction that the won?
     
  9. Ignoramus Maximus

    Ignoramus Maximus Nomen non est omen.

    My coin arrived yesterday after 33 a day Odyssey from Belgium. It's quite a chunky one so I had hoped it would come at least padded... Instead I received a zip-lock bag taped between to pieces of thinnish paper in a regular envelope. Fortunately the coin made it every bit as chunky as it was 2500-2600 years ago. All's well that ends well :)
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  10. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Ares is an auction house that exists for quite some time, not on biddr but on ebay and on their own website. Zeus is new and I am very sceptical, in fact I do not even believe they are based in the UK. And indeed their whole website is a lie. When I paid with PayPal I searched up the company since it was deposited to some IT business. I found that the business is owned by a Turkish person in the Netherlands (which makes sense because the coins are shipped from there).
    I finally got the coins, but it was missing a lot so I had to contact Zeus, they gave me a refund on the coin and they deposited on my bank account from a Dutch Iban and again some other Turkish name, so I think it is pretty clear.

    What a hassle...
     
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  11. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    So let's see. Zeus lies about who they are. They lie about where they are. They appear to ignore all communications after they've been paid. They are unbelievably and unforgivably careless in packaging coins to mail to their buyers, proving that either they don't know any better or they don't give a you-know-what. And yet there are people who are still willing to deal with them as if they were a legitimate business, because they seem to have some nice coins among their lots, and sometimes the merchandise (or some of it) eventually arrives intact? What else might they be lying about?
     
  12. Napata

    Napata Active Member

    I think this there is no precedent about them besides this thread. For instance, when it comes to Lanz Numismatics, it does not require lots of research to get informed of their tooling practice.
     
    rrdenarius likes this.
  13. Papyri

    Papyri New Member

    I had to jump on to this forum to share some research into this company. Zeus Numismatics would appear to be a trading name of Zeus Traders Limited, which is the name given on the Contact Page on the Biddr auctions platform. According to the records lodged with Companies House in the UK, Zeus Traders Limited was incorporated on 21 August 2019 and a Turkish national born in August 1981 is named as the Director the company holding 100% of the shares. The address given in the Companies House documents and on the Biddr platform is a non-descript house with the blue car in the weed-strewn driveway according to Google Street View. The company’s website, staff details and their emails, are fictional as has already been outlined by previous contributors.

    It seems clear that (1) "Zeus Numismatics" is the trading name of a company registered in the UK, (2) coins are dispatched to buyers from Belgium, (3) payments via Paypal are sent to some IT business, and (4) refunds are made from an account in the Netherlands – Why? The only answers that seems possible would be nefarious: "Layering", which is a process that conceals the source of the money through a series of transactions and bookkeeping tricks.

    Napata, I understand that from a strictly legal standpoint Biddr is a platform and not a publisher, which is a neat legal distinction that allows them to skirt responsibility for those (consigners or buyers) that use their platform. Consequently, I would strongly advise people to only deal with auction houses that they are comfortable to share their personal data with. I do not think that fact a particular company is listed on Biddr carries any endorsement or protection whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  14. Papyri

    Papyri New Member

    Further to my post yesterday, I have discovered a very similar thread on Numismatik Forum (in German), where very similar sentiments are expressed: https://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=60666

    After reviewing the meagre "Auction Terms" on Biddr, I am very concerned that nowhere does it state that "Zeus Numimatics" is the trading name of "Zeus Traders Ltd". Moreover, in the thread on the German forum one poster observes that address of "Zeus Numismatics", the one given on Biddr - 105 Thornsbeach Road, London, SE6 1EY - is shared with with nearly 100 other companies (97 to be exact, which I have confirmed today by a search on Endole.co.uk).

    When I reflect on the transnational "layering" of the company's registeration (UK), shipping (Belgium), and IBAN accounts (Dutch), I would not be surprised if "Zeus Numismatics" is a possible conduit for money laundering.
     
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  15. Limes

    Limes Well-Known Member

    Good research and good advice. The pictures of the several packages however show a PostNL sticker. Its from the Netherlands.
     
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  16. Papyri

    Papyri New Member

    Thanks for your kind words. You're right, of course, Limes. But some of the coins from Prime Auction 5 were sent from Belgium, others from the Netherlands - which makes it even more mysterious!
     
  17. Papyri

    Papyri New Member

    sterlingfox, did you contact them and receive any reply?
     
  18. acsearch.info

    acsearch.info Well-Known Member

    For full disclosure, I'd like to mention that I am involved with biddr.com. I've asked one of the mods/admins to change my user name to "Simon" (my real name) before I post to this thread in order to prevent confusion, but I was told that's not possible.

    I'd like to thank everyone who shared their experience here. If anyone still has a problem with Zeus Numismatics, please send us a quick message here https://www.biddr.com/about/contact and we will try to help you and to mediate.

    Please note that due to the current situation, shipping (especially overseas) can take a long time and is usually due to customs. I've heard of shippments that arrived more than 2 months after they were posted.

    @Papyri, I don't think that conspiracy theories are very helpful and before you accuse someone of a serious crime like money laundering, you should have solid evidence. Yes, their business is registered in the UK, where - unlike in many other European countries - it is very inexpensive to open a business. There are hundrets of thousand companies registered in the UK that are operated from other countries. And yes, they do operate from the Netherlands (very close to the Belgium borders) and have sent their coins from the Netherlands as well as from Belgium. I don't know the reasons, maybe the Belgium Post is just less expensive or more reliable!?

    As for their website, I agree that this does not look very trustworthy and I will let them know. I don't know for sure, but I assume that they just took a template and filled it with mostly random data before they started their auction business and forgot about it eversince (it still shows their first auction on their frontpage).

    I hope I was able to clearify a few things and, again, if you experience any problems, please send us a quick message and we will try to help.
     
    Alegandron, BenSi, Aurelianus and 7 others like this.
  19. Papyri

    Papyri New Member

    Thank you for that, Simon. I must protest your characterisation of what I wrote. It was certainly more nuanced than you make it sound - and, if you read what I wrote, it was a carefully expressed personal opinion.

    You have certainly put a highly positive spin on the bizarre business practices of "Zeus Traders Ltd" trading as "Zeus Numismatics". If the company is only registered in the UK, then why is their contact number that is given on your Biddr.com platform a mobile with a UK prefix (+44)? I entirely understand why you would defend any company that uses your Biddr.com platform. But I respectfully suggest that the onus is on you to provide evidence when doing so. You seem to think that countering my so-called "conspiracy theories" with wishful thinking will cut it, but it won't. I reiterate that there is no reason for "Zeus Numismatics" to adopt such opaque business practices. The fact that their website gives information on fictitious personnel and looks "very trustworthy", as you yourself describe it, is utterly egregious behaviour and, however much you may not like it, it is indefensible. I respectfully suggest to you should have more stringent vetting proceedures for the companies that your platform provides facilities to, unless you want to see Biddr.com brought into disrepute.
     
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  20. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I agree that "not very trustworthy" is putting a very positive spin on things. Their website is entirely fraudulent, listing entirely fictitious personnel, and is largely stolen from another company. Nothing "random" about it. I think you need a far better explanation. Zeus's refusal to respond to communications and repeatedly careless packaging are also inexcusable. No need to bring up money laundering!
     
  21. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Thank you for the explanation. It however, doesn't justify or explain their use of fictional personnel, fake address, fake e-mails, fake phone number, fake names, fake identity, copy-paste website and continuous change of names.
    I got an e-mail a while ago that if I would like to have their EUR Iban number I need to contact: (e-mail).gmail.com
    ZEUS NUMISMATICS CEO THOMAS BASTEN

    As far as I know the CEO is a Turkish person, even confirmed when he responded " tarihinde Thomas Basten <(e-mail).gmail.com> şunu yazdı:". Clearly his e-mail is set in Turkish. So in other words, continuous lying of their identity, who is Thomas Basten? Not the CEO atleast, or again some fictional character.

    I am surprised that when an auction house wants to sell on biddr, the company does not need to identify itself with legal papers, ID and proof of address of the company. As @Papyri showed already, the address is registered by another almost 100 companies.
     
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