Zecchino... potential counterfeit?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Return2AuStandard, Dec 5, 2020.

  1. Return2AuStandard

    Return2AuStandard New Member

    Hello, I appreciate the wisdom shared in this forum and wanted to ask your opinion on a recent purchase... having just picked up a second Zecchino gold coin, I immediately compared it to the first one and noticed a couple obvious differences... 1) the PCGS slab appears to hold the coin in a different manner (one has a 3 slotted design while the other does not), and 2) the obverse of the coin is positioned differently between the two different slabs.

    Presume PCGS simply changed/updated their slab type and the presentation may be just subjective, but thought it prudent to run this by the group here given everything I’ve read about counterfeits coming from China, etc. - sincerely appreciate your help! Take care 3270174C-0D1E-45CB-BF53-4028FB2EA00D.jpeg 95BFB754-A5DB-41CE-9B45-CB3C04F09904.jpeg
     
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  3. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    The label says Italy-Achaia, if true (I can't fully see the legends, but it looks likely) the coins are contemporary imitations of the zecchino of Andrea Dandolo by the Acciaioli interest in Morea in the 1340s. So not exactly Venetian, but a Levantine imitation.
     
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  4. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I have one from there too.
    I got mine from Heritage Auction
    AV Zecchino ND Achaia Mint/ Crusader States
    Robert d'Anjou of Tarante 1346-64
    He was married to Joanna of Naples/ was Emperor of Constantinople/ Prince of Achaia and Taranto
    These coins were struck to imitate the Venetian Zecchini of Andrea Dandalo. lf (40).jpg lf (41).jpg
     
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  5. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    The mint was likely Glarentza.
     
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  6. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    There are a lot of "fake slabbed coins" coming out Communist China:inpain:. However, it seems the "Corona Virus" was the real McCoy.:(
     
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  7. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

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  8. Return2AuStandard

    Return2AuStandard New Member

    Per PCGS: “The on-line PCGS Certificate Verification is a method for confirming that a particular certificate number matches the information in the PCGS database, but the counterfeiters are aware of this detection method and are now using valid certificate numbers.”
     
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  9. Return2AuStandard

    Return2AuStandard New Member

    So true, panzerman! I’ve attempted to learn more about how to detect counterfeit slabs, but have not found any clear indicators... per PCGS: “The counterfeit PCGS holders are well-executed, but with minor differences from a genuine holder.” Was hoping someone here could share what they know on what ‘differences’ to be aware of?
     
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  10. mike estes

    mike estes Active Member

    i dont have a lot to contribute to this thread buy ive seen both type of holders and I believe you can request any type of holder the seller has. certain types of holders are used so that the edge can be seen. hope this helps
     
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  11. gmarguli

    gmarguli Slightly Evil™

    The one slabbed with cert 18751510 is a genuine PCGS slab. I was the submitter of that coin to PCGS.

    The one slabbed 20403979 appears genuine. I have slabs with cert numbers 200 away from this and they used the 3-prong slab.

    FYI, the one with cert 19716063 came from the same hoard that was mainly dispersed at the NYINC show in 2011.
     
  12. Return2AuStandard

    Return2AuStandard New Member

    This is outstanding news... thank you for your response and validation. Talk about a small world!
     
  13. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The left holder is an old-style PCGS holder, while the right one is a little later. I’m currently not aware of Chinese counterfeits of venetian gold.

    They look like Gen 4.4 and 4.5

    https://www.pcgs.com/holders
     
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  14. Return2AuStandard

    Return2AuStandard New Member

    Have learned so much in the past 48h... fully concur with your assessment. Also comforting to know that counterfeit Venetians aren’t on their radar!
     
  15. finny

    finny Active Member

    i think now they offer photo services too - so you can examine the image of the coin when you lookup the cert - that only works for the newer ones and that added that service.
     
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  16. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    "Now" meaning as in since 2007.
     
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