You're the grader

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Insider, May 25, 2022.

?

What would you do?

Poll closed May 27, 2022.
  1. It is common modern junk. Let it go out as a 68.

    4 vote(s)
    10.0%
  2. Net grade the coin down to 66-67.

    8 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Net grade the coin to 64-65.

    7 vote(s)
    17.5%
  4. Net the coin down below MS-65.

    2 vote(s)
    5.0%
  5. grade the coin MS - Details.

    19 vote(s)
    47.5%
  1. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    I cannot in good conscious leave the grade at 68. The marks, though Mint made, are too distracting for 67 or 68.

    I would downgrade the coin to MS-65 FS or MS-66 FS
     
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    justafarmer, posted: "Contact/bag marks are also damage yet don't cause a coin to receive a details grade. [True, those marks can influence the MS grade range a lot. Not so much for the circulated grades.] My thought/assumption is the marks on the OP coin must not be very distracting being you are reviewing a coin initially graded MS-68 by a co-worker."

    Unfortunately, you have made an incorrect assumption. Happens to me :bucktooth:a lot too.

    Note:
    :D
     
  4. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Well, I am waiting to hear what caused this damage and why it is particular to mint sets. Part of the mint set packaging process?
     
    Insider likes this.
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Send a letter to the Treasury Dept. and let us know what they replied.
     
    Kentucky and atcarroll like this.
  6. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Well, in this instance I have to make assumptions and rely on my co-worker's grading ability. Being I am making the call based on a single photograph that enlarges the impacted area by 50 to 100 times its actual size.
     
  7. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    First thought, maybe a silent net grade of 65 would be fair.

    If you operate on the assumption that slabs are intended to facilitate sight unseen trading, things like this are difficult. Some buyers just aren't gonna like this coin.

    Seems like ICG sometimes makes some kind of notation for anomalies on the label, that would seem appropriate to me here.
     
    MIGuy likes this.
  8. Scott J

    Scott J Well-Known Member

    I'd give it MS Details ((damaged)
    Quick question based on this -
    If you don't know then how do you know (that the mint caused it)?
     
  9. Mike Thornton

    Mike Thornton Learning something new everyday. Supporter

    First thought was, "why wasn't this returned to the mint for replacement?"
    Second thought was, "68, really"
    Third thought was, "who is the blindman on the grading floor?, good thing we have QC"
    Last thought was, "Details, damaged".
     
  10. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    The surface is damaged and I don't care who did it. Details all the way.
     
    atcarroll likes this.
  11. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Okay, next...
     
    Insider likes this.
  12. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    The event of the damage being caused at the mint is nothing more than a mcguffin.
     
    Scott J likes this.
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    You are a professional TPG. Only the finalizer's grade counts. Your "gut" is usually correct.;)

    When my car goes missing, I know it is missing. I do not know who took it. ;)

    AMEN! The problem is, coins in general have a lot of imperfections. As a TPG "market acceptability" becomes a factor. That's why I posted this example to stir up a discussion and let others express their opinion. We see lots of coins straight graded by TPGS that members don't like. :D
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
    Kentucky, wxcoin and jamor1960 like this.
  14. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

  15. atcarroll

    atcarroll Well-Known Member

    He mentioned mint set. I'm going to guess it came in for grading in OGP.
     
  16. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    It looks like post strike damage, so I would call it MS details.
     
    spirityoda and Insider like this.
  17. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    Without reading anyone else's comments, I voted MS-Details. I just can't see anything else given that scuff. If it were mine, my eyes would go to that area like a nail to a magnet. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

    Steve
     
    wxcoin and Insider like this.
  18. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    I don’t think it’s probably as bad in hand. That being said I’d grade it ms 64 as I don’t think anything that significant belongs on a gem 65 or better coin. It’s to me the same as a heavy bag mark. Not quite enough to detail it. But far enough to keep it out of a high grade
     
    mikenoodle, longshot and MIGuy like this.
  19. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This coin is going out "Details." Every grader saw the damage right away. :D
    It's too much. The 50c in the set with the same damage was worse. This is common on Ikes and Anthony dollars.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  20. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Personally, I believe any vote for "details" (a vote to essentially trash an otherwise fine, legitimate coin) is a BIG part of what's wrong with TPGing...it's the SCOURGE of TPGing...and needs to be re-thought/re-considered/re-evaluated for credibility...and then removed, as it's currently done all-too-often. The "details" designation has become too easy and vague...like an excuse...like a disease that spreads and grows. For this, either a straight grade of MS68FS with a label comment of either: "reverse scrape on pillar below dome"...or, "reverse details"...OR...net-grade it straight as MS67FS and let the market determine value at sale(s). Obviously common sense says it's not/nothing intentional...not grafitti, etc...no altering of coin's script or of key devices such as to prevent identification or attribution, etc. We've allowed the devil in/to the "details" way too much/far and we need to preform an exorcism.
     
  21. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    You Sir, would make an EXCELLENT COIN DEALER!

    In my :angelic: ideal world. [
    Play the harp music] Any collector would be able to look at a coin and see everything on it and know what caused everything they saw. They would miss nothing. They would also know the price spread, its grade and value. Unfortunately, :( [stop the music] I'm dreaming. The TPGS try to protect uninformed (Ignorant - look the word up) collectors.
    You see,
    some folks :bookworm: DON'T NEED TPGS! Unfortunately, IMO, the vast majority from CRH to investors do.

    As a former coin dealer, I tried to educate my customers; sell at a fair price while buying at the highest price. In that regard, the first thing I would alert someone looking at a superb specimen as this (with reverse damage) is the DAMAGE.

    THE COIN IS DAMAGED and not suitable for an informed, quality conscious collector. It's value and salability is reduced.

    In my experience, TPG "Detailed" coins are selling just as fast as straight graded coins. More collectors can afford them and problem vintage coins far outnumber non-problem coins. Furthermore,
    your excellent suggestion was tried and rejected - Grade the coin for what it is and let the market price it!

    Bottom line, collect what you wish BUT most of you better look closely at what you buy so you can make an informed decision. The TPGS's are around to aid you.
     
    Mainebill, MIGuy, Kentucky and 3 others like this.
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