Your thoughts wanted: I'm starting my own grading service

LOL - the way Doug grades might diswade many from ever submitting coins again... Is that a bad thing - no!

 

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We'll never see this guy again, start a thread and disappear is my guess. What reasonable person with a sound business plan and the proper credentials starts a thread like this one was started? If the remarks are discouraging as Coinman pointed out, it is only because no one can give much credit to such a poorly thought out initial question. If this guy does come back and answer the questions that have been asked then maybe he will get more encouraging answers. Until then there is not much more to say IMO. Maybe this gut is legit, I hope he is but without more details how can you take this seriously?

 

You would be another guy with an opinion and a slab...probably get a lot of people here to use you at least.

This guy could EASILY start grading coins and slabbing them and make a little money, even if nobody has ever heard of him and even if he slabbed everything at the wrong grade, or what you guys THINK is the wrong grade. What you guys think is irrelevant as I doubt you are his target.

The ground work has done for him, people already rely on slabs and TPGs rather blindly. There are people here who wont even buy a coin that isn't encapsulated in plastic. Many will just see the slab and feel a little better about buying it. As for his reputation...just say you have 20 year experience in coins...most wont check. Most people are getting their coins slabbed and graded by people they do not know, never seen or met, and know nothing about anyway.

I was thinking of doing this myself...you dont need a guarantee. If I sent an ancient coin to NGC, they offer no guarantee...but still people do it. I will just be like any other TPG and if someone tells me they think my grade is wrong, I will simply give them some kind of double talk WHY I gave it that grade and WHY they aren't getting their money back...once you get the money, there will be only the most RARE cases where any company would ever refund it.

Most will take the coin, the slab and a grade and not question it. Its the great thing about the racket...anyone can do it. If I send an ancient to NGC I have to pay them and entrust my coin to them. They will look at it, grade it and attribute it. If I later find it is fake...they send me a refund of my money (I assume). How many people do you think will go the extra mile and double check? How many will see the grade and plastic, trust it, then put it away in a drawer? NGC offers NO guarantee of authenticity so every other coin they slab could be fake and they will only lose what they didnt have in the first place, my fee, in the rare case someone double checks and in the even more rare case they accept and refund a dime.

If they come back to me and say 'I sent the coin to so and so and he says its fake'...I will say so and so is wrong and I am right...no refund. Just make it harder than pulling teeth to ever get a refund (like they must get at least 3 experts to contradict me, and I am the judge of what is an expert.) lots of fine print that protects me under any circumstance. Like everyone in business does and you are good to go.

I had a revelation the other day, with fine print and disclaimers buried somewhere that doesn't draw attention, you never have to provide any quality service and you can still make money. When you ship a package with a shipping company. You are not paying them to deliver your package...you are just paying them for the possibility they will deliver it. There are disclaimers that say if they lose it or break it, they take no responsibility...and they don't. You have to get insurance...so the company is saying...sure we will TRY and deliver your package but we might not and if we don't, we aren't responsible...you need to pay MORE money and buy insurance. This still wont assure the package gets there at all or in one piece...but at least you can get a few bucks back if and when it doesn't....They offer no guarantee and, in essence, tell you 'we cant promise you it will get there so you better buy insurance because we wont take responsibility, we wont back up our service and cant assure anything at all.'...this is what most business do with fine print, discharge any responsibility.

If ANYONE can get enough people to use and buy coins in your slab, he will do just fine...GOOD LUCK!!!

 

The OBJECT of this thread had thrust me back in time to the year 1971. I was in the business of transporting U.S. Diplomatic Communications out of an office on 5th avenue New York.

One Winter Day a gentleman walked into my office and asked for 30 minutes of my time. I invited him into my office and he blurted out, " how would you like to be apart of my plan to make millions of dollars" ? I chuckled quite loudly, and replied " I would not do well in jail at all ! "

He got very serious and than proceeded to lay upon my desk a bunch of papers with charts , graphs and lots of dollar signs.
His presentation was quite interesting. He asked that I review the presentation further at my leisure and that he would contact me again in a few weeks.

It sat on my desk a week or so and his call came. Being embarrassed that I had not done what I agreed to, I asked him for another week to review his presentation.

I did. I also conferred with a few well trusted associates and my attorney. All the feedback was negative. To make a long story short, I declined to pursue any thoughts of joining him in his venture.

Now I'll tell you his name. Freddie Smith, Founder of Federal Express.

 

There already to much tpg,s out there! Would think it would pretty hard
Since many people have the bottom line in mind, My question would be
Would my PCGS MS66 have the same weight as yours, Probably much more
Sorry but i would rather take my coin to them then you just because
Of there reputation!!

 

The big difference is he (Mr. Smith) had a plan he was willing to share beyond I want to be the most affordable grader or in your case best shipping company. I wish the guy the best of luck and I am sure the potential to make a killing is out there. You don't need to ask that question because the answer is obvious. Without more information, I go back to how can you take this seriously?

 

Make a nice looking professional site. Make up 'special offers' and grading packages....Here you have to make it seem like they cant do without your service!! Make it seem like you are a real authority...If you have been collecting long enough, it will be true kinda, about as true as most others, its all subjective (see terms and agreement)...Also it might be good to pay for a membership to a coin group like ANA...pass the money around. Dont think people cant be sold by a lot of offical sounding marketing ploys. They WANT you to assure them, you want them to pay you to assure them...and maybe even use the 'we are the little guys so we want your business more and will work hard to keep it' stuff....Stress honest and trust (though the reality is 'see terms and agreement') It wouldnt hurt to buy some coins grade them well (if you need help come here or a place like it), put them in your slab and put those on your website as examples so people can see you are good. Its all in appearance. People want the slab and they want it cheap so make sure you ARE a bit cheaper or offer to grade more for less, etc...

MOST importantly cover your butt...put something like what is posted below in your terms and agreement area, make sure its not accessible from the front page and maybe even frequently down. So lets say your new TPG will be called Security Unlimited Coin Authentication. I have bolded the important parts, dont bold them on your website, you dont even want them to read this if possible:

Terms

Information and related materials are subject to change without notice. This web site and all information and related materials it contains are provided "as is." SUCA makes no claims or warranty whatsoever regarding the completeness, accuracy, or adequacy of, or the suitability, functionality, availability or operation of this web site or the information and materials it contains. SUCA specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, and non-infringement with respect to this web site and the information, graphics, and materials contained herein.

In no event will SUCA be liable for damages of any kind, including without limitation, any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages even if SUCA has been advised of the possibility of such damages.

Grading: The grading of coins is subjective and solely reflects the opinions of the SUCA graders.

In the event that any owner or subsequent purchaser of a a SUCA coin believes that a coin has been over-graded by SUCA with respect to such procedures, such person may submit the coin to SUCA through its "Appearance Review" service for a review of the assigned grade. If the grade determined under such review in SUCA’s sole opinion is ultimately lower than that originally assigned to the coin, SUCA shall, at SUCA’s option, either exchange the coin in question with an equivalent coin at the earlier higher grade or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the coin at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such coin. Due to the volatile nature of the coin market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions/sales do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular coin. SUCA will determine the current fair market value of a coin based upon what SUCA believes, in its sole opinion, to be reliable current market information. SUCA’s subjective determination of fair market value shall be binding on all parties.

WARNING: THIS GUARANTEE IS LIMITED.


SUCA is committed to grading only genuine coins, but it does not guarantee authenticity, genuineness or attribution, nor is any guarantee of these aspects implied. SUCA will only holder coins it considers genuine at the time of submission, but it cannot guarantee the authenticity, genuineness, type, attribution or date of any coin it holders. SUCA will only guarantee the grade (see grading Terms on some other area of the site).

The grading of coins is subjective and solely reflects the opinions of SUCA graders. All coins submitted to SUCA shall be examined in accordance with SUCA grading procedures (list on some other area of the website).

Additional terms:

1. SUCA reserves the right to refuse to grade coins which SUCA, at its sole discretion, decides not to encapsulate in its holders due to previous damage, questionable toning or altered surfaces to such coins or due to negative eye appeal, as determined by SUCA.
2. SUCA will credit the account of any Customer whose coins SUCA decides not to encapsulate, with a deduction for administration and processing by SUCA. At its sole discretion and at any time.
3. Coins submitted to SUCA will be graded within a commercially reasonable time-period. SUCA assumes no liability of any kind whatsoever to Customer for any incidental or consequential damages due to SUCA's delay in grading any coins, whether due to the action or inaction of SUCA.
4. All coins sent to Customer by SUCA must be inspected by Customer when received. Any damage discovered by Customer must be reported to SUCA within five business days of the Customer's receipt of such coins (you can tweak this number).
5. The grading of coins is an exercise of professional judgment and opinion, which can be subjective and may change from time to time. As a result, SUCA shall assume no liability of any kind whatsoever and makes no warranties or representations to Customer for any grade assigned by SUCA to any coins/

Except as expressly set forth herein, SUCA disclaims any and all warranties, express or implied, regarding SUCA's grading service and all activities of SUCA related thereto.

From time to time SUCA may revise the Terms of Use. Revised terms will be posted to the Site and are effective immediately. By using the Site after we have revised the Terms of Use you will be deemed to have accepted the revisions and will be bound by the revised Terms of Use. (so you can slip in new things and unless they keep reading every time they use your site, they wont know)

The sole remedy that you shall have for any claim or controversy arising out of or in connection with the Site or Service shall be a refund, without interest, of all or part of the price which you have paid to SUCA for services which you have purchased from SUCA through the Site. Apart from that sole remedy, you waive any claim for direct, indirect, incidental, consequential or exemplary damages for any claim or controversy arising out of or in connection with the SUCA.

We do not guarantee accessibility, accuracy, or security of the Site. You accept the Site on an "as is" and "as available" basis.

We reserve the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, to restrict or terminate your right to use the site.

 

Fred also rolled the dice with $450,000,000 of his own money with Zapmail, and be glad you didn't say yes to that. Ever hear of Zapmail? I didn't think so.

Don't feel bad Fred got a "C" doing his masters thesis on overnight mail delivery being feasible.

 

Actually I am familiar with his "ZAPMAIL" venture. The rest of the story, which I had not mentioned, was that I provided some Investor leads to him. Two turned out quite nicely. Overtime we had developed both a Professional as well as personal relationship. Later on in years, I leased one of his properties fifteen feet off the Pacific Ocean. At some point, I don't quite remember exactly when, but my profession took me to many International points, which did not quite accommodate maintaining those stateside relationships .

ehhhh all that stuff was ages ago!

 

I think you should allign yourself with a well established TPG like ANACS, NGC or PCGS and work for them for a while. That may establish your reputation and give you that first step toward earning customers respect and business. Also you might work in or open your own coin store and offer your grading expertice for a small attractive sum.

Just jumping right in seem a bit foolhardy IMO. Best you test the waters first. Good Luck.

Bruce

 

Hmmm, Doug's "Tough Love Coin Grading" company.

The label will be about 5 x 7 to give all of the admonishments we normally get

We love you man! :bow:


Jim

 

I wish you all the very, very best luck. It's an admirable and honorable goal, but I must admit I think it's unattainable.

You may think you're not competing with the Big Boy TPGs, but you are. It doesn't matter what I say or think. What counts is the marketplace as a whole - and I am 100% certain your slabs will be competing on the bourse floor with PCGS and NGC, regardless of your intentions. It is almost impossible to win that battle.

Again, I wish you the very best - but I think it will be a waste of time and money.

 

To guage the potential success of a startup, look at recent history of others.

After all these years, how well is ICG doing ?

I bet the FUN show bourse floor had less than 1% ICG slabs. Dealers don't want 'em because they don't sell. Others are doomed to a similar fate - easier to put Apollo 11 on the moon than a new TPG to get credibility.

 

While I appreciate the intention of the OP to carve out a niche market in the TPG playing field, I don't really think that being the cheapest service is a feasible niche. Every potential customer would have to consider the cost benefit of sending their coins to him as opposed to PCGS, NCG, ICG, ANACS, DGS....etc. If the OP's submission price is $20 less but coins in his slab sell for $25 less on average, it will be a short lived venture for the start up TPG. This thread has provided many reasons why it will be extremely difficult to avoid that from happening. The TPG business is all about consumer confidence, reputation, and guarantee.

I believe that there are niche markets available in the TPG arena. Dealers with highly specialized knowledge and respected reputations could create their own TPG's. Rick Snow comes to mind. How many IHC collectors would send their coins to him if he owned a TPG. I think his graded coins would fare very well against PCGS and NGC graded coins. The reason is that his numismatic reputation for grading in his niche is more respected than the professional graders of the major TPG's in that same niche. Likewise, if a toning specialist like Ron Sirna were to create a TPG with it's own standards for evaluating toning, I think it could be successful, although very risky.

 

Now we're getting somewhere !

Yes, Lehigh is right... Rick Snow has demonstrated that a pseudo-TPG style opinion service has viability. Realize that Rick is The Man when it comes to Indian Cents, and for that reason his opinion has street cred. That's the crux of the issue.

In a sense, CAC has done something similar. They aren't a full blown TPG with all the gigantic infrastructure a TPG must have, but they do fill a niche market.

Gosh, I just love the sound of that phrase "Ricky is The Man" ! Don't you ?