Your thoughts on these grades - NGC 8 Escudos

I do not mind going full bore for 8 months, I take the Winter off. My work (landscaping) is seasonal, as the saying goes, "You gotta make hay while the sun shines" Once, snow arrives....time to play. Snowmobiling, hockey,taking my Rottie for hikes, and of course fooling around with the coins. I still do the "auction" thing on sixbid.com. mostly thru proxy bidding. I am a very active person, my job is just a good workout. I have clients who are doctors/lawyers tht work those hours all 12 months of the year.
John

 

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I hear ya. Doesn't sound too bad. I never heard of sixbid though. The thing I love about coins is that you can do it with any budget, and we all get the collecting bug in our own way

 

www.sixbid.com site for all (well most) auction houses. You will see Kunker/Baldwins/St. James/Cayon/Rauch/Heritage/Stacks/Ars Classica/Hess Divo/Sincona......Probably over 50 Billion $ in coins per annum. Something for everyone.

John

 

I like the coins of the early Latin American Republics & don't have a single Colonial 8 E's in any condition. I've tried for Colonials but was always outbid. Also a few years ago it was possible to find nice pieces "relatively cheaply". I suspect in Europe one can still cherry pick great pieces but it's almost like you have to see the coins in person. I've had some auction representation in the past 2 years and today it's almost like the guys collect the commission and don't even bother to look at the coins.

Right now I'm living in Brazil and all dealers, the 1st thing they do when they get a coin is take it out of it's holder and rub it between thumb and forefinger. Even 300 year old gold coins. Thus there are absolutely no unworn coins left in the whole country that haven't already been sent off to Heritage.


Bolivia, 1837, in a 62 slab

Bolivia, 1856, raw but gotten for me by Jim Elmen (so it's nice)

Chile, 1832, in a 64 slab, the Eliasberg piece

Peru, 1840, in a 62 slab, P/L, Millenium sale, bought in person: no hl's

 

Not much common sense in Brazil. You should never handle a coin without special coin handling gloves, even then as delicate as possible. That is why i post photos with coins in safety of coinflip, the less handling the better. The Lissner Collection held by CNG Auctions/St. James had a wonderfull array of post Colonial Escudo coinage from Argentina/Bolivia/Chile/Colombia/N. Peru/S. Peru/Ecuador. Numisma Auctions in Portugal have nice quality Brazil. I won a 4000 Reis 1719-B Bahia in Sobrera=UNC for 1600E, the same dated coin slabbed MS-65 Heritage went for $6000US. Mine is better quality, way BETTER price. Same they had a Portugal 400 Reis Joao V MS-66, Numisma had a Quasi/Sobrera in last auction, that looks way better then MS-66 I got it for quarter of price. So, one has to shop around for good buys/grading.
john

 

Portuguese gold coins are still a "dont tell anyone they are still affordable" secret... so... shhhhhh

 

A big mistake of mine was in not attending the Lissner sale in person, flying up from Brazil. Yes prices were insane & I had given dealer representatives a huge multi-variable spreadsheet of maybe close to 100 pieces. In the end I got nothing major. Had I been in attendance I would've met some friends and there were a few important pieces that slipped thru the cracks.

I was pleased to note that the 65 grade Chile 1819 8 escudos brought some money: I also have the NGC 64 specimen of the same date. There is a major variety difference between these early Dos Bandaras gold and the latter pieces like the 1832.

I'm a member of the SNB (Sociedade Numismatica do Brasil) & people (well actually my wife) are harassing me to write an article on US grading standards & coin conservation for their magazine down there.

I did find the following down there. This is the 2nd year of issue of Brazil's gold coins. Easy to remember: the USA made it's 1st gold in 1795, Brazil made it in 1695*. This is a 4000 reis, 1696 & of a type made only a few years in the 17th century. No mint mark, but at this time there was a mint which moved every couple of years. In 1696, it was in Salvadore, capital of the State of Bahia.
However this piece has some slight damage. There are 3 short scratches (total) under 3 of the 7 castle-things in the outer part of the shield. They don't show up in this photo & in fact when I last looked at the coin I couldn't see them, but they do show up with a Hastings-Triplet. The surfaces however are absolutely pristine & frosty otherwise (owned by a non-rubbing coin dealer). Normally I avoid damaged coins but I've looked at 1600's slabbed Brazilian gold and it always has some problem; even stuff in 62 holders. It's a toss-up whether this coin will slab or not. Were it not for the 3 scratches I'd guess a 64 grade easily but then again I'm not a professional.

Now I don't collect Portugal. I collect Brazil as part of my Latin American collection. I should mention that uniquely for Brazil, I also am able to get some Colonial stuff. Due to financial constraints I simply don't collect all countries but limit myself to only 3 or 4 areas. I shall try Numisma Auctions in Portugal but I'll need representation there.

& yes your guess is correct. I tried for the Roman Johannes (my namesake) solidus in NAC but got blown out of the water.

*The Dutch did make some pieces in the 1640's but this was not Portuguese Brazil. I consider these piece to be, like the 1787? Brasher doubloons for the USA, outside the regular country coinage

 

Interesting post! I tried for Johannes AV Solidus too! same result...
But I instead at Numisma got Joao(Johannes) 4000 Reis 1719-B UNC and his little pinto 400 Reis ! Both for 2500 EUROS. I think that 400 Reis is best I have ever seen! Both beautifull pieces. My next goal is a 20,000 Reis Minas Gerais mint.
John

 

My next goal is a 20,000 Reis Minas Gerais mint - not a lot of them around in FDC state im afraid.

 

I noticed that, when checked past auctions Numisma! Well, I would be happy with a quasi soberba coin, at that auction they equal US slab MS-64 in quality. i guess those big coins were used for everyday money. Why, where no 20,000 Reis coins issued from Rio/Bahia Mints?

John

 

When you mean 20,000 reis I guess you're referring to the large 53 gram issues of 1724 - 1727. These are really nice coins but not that rare circulated. They do turn up periodically in ms. Heritage just sold a NGC-65 specimen this Jan, which I was able to view in person at the MexNa Conference.

The early 20K adorn the front cover of a huge coffee table book on coins and history put out with help from the Brazilian Government. It's written in English & Portuguese side by side, is abt 300 pgs & costs around $50.

Well Minas Gerais is the state (note that these are not city mint marks but state) where a lot of gold was mined. Thus they were probably more concerned with getting the gold into coin form for shipment to the coast & so it didn't get stolen or bits taken in shipment by corrupt officials. They may have been concerned with the lack of reliable transportation from the interior of the country.

I was going to illustrate my 20,000 reis of 1922 NGC-62 which is not the type that you're thinking of I'd guess. This is the last legal tender type gold coin issued by Brazil. but I can't find any picture...