Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Alexthegreat, Jan 11, 2020.
what grading do you expect for this Denver mint coin?
Greetings from Germany
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I strongly suspect that this is contaminated with PVC, and needs to be conserved before you submit it (with that green, it will not be encapsulated - PVC is really bad). However, your advantage is that PVC contamination doesn't actually damage gold... it just needs to be conserved.
Once the PVC is removed, I think this will grade 62 or 63. The lighting used for this picture is very strong and tends to oversaturate the luster and hide the marks, giving a somewhat washed out appearance. However, from what I see, this appears like it will be an attractive coin once properly conserved.
If you are unfamiliar with conservation practices for coins, please do not try to do this yourself. NGC has a conservation service where, for a small fee, they will conserve the coin for you. Please, if you are not familiar with these practices, use that service. When done properly, conservation will significantly benefit this coin - if done improperly, it will utterly destroy the coin and any numismatic value.
Could 63 at highest.
The coin is only 90% gold.
The other 10% is copper and PVC WILL attack copper.
The leaf is not actually square, there is a contact mark right there that makes it look odd with the lighting. And a die chip on its own is perfectly natural. I don't know what the diagnostics are for a genuine example of this date, or if there are known counterfeits - but a die chip or blem may help confirm or deny the authenticity. This particular coin does not look counterfeit to me, but you are correct that Indians are very highly counterfeited.
Take a look at the greenish area under 10x or higher magnification and look for little bluish-green translucent blobs.
I don't know that I've seen green toning of this shade and uniformity around just the outside rim of a coin like this.
But look at the first 2 or 3 feathers of her headdress - that's pretty clear PVC in my mind.
I think there's a big difference between the Saint you show and the Indian in the OP, however.
Indeed, and not just a $275,000 difference. The Indian needs a close look and an acetone treatment, but it is possible that those colors can coexist. As an aside, you never forget some coins that you see. I took that picture over 10 years ago.
Normally, I would agree with you. But, in this case, the proper procedure is a simple soak in pure acetone with a distilled water rinse. The only way you can screw that up is by not using 100% acetone, and, in that case, you can probably fix it by redoing the procedure with pure acetone.
I agree it doesn't scream "counterfeit" to me, and I also can't get a read on any luster. MS-62 seems within reason, as does AU-58 potentially. Although, if it is a 58, it's only just barely got enough wear on it to be considered a circulated coin.
Why bother? Just do the acetone treatment. It's so simple a 5 year old could do it correctly, provided you use pure acetone and distilled water.
I decidet not to buy the coin, because of I am looking for a piece that is MS 63/64. This one is probably Ms 62 or even just AU 58. The pictures are not good enough to evaluate the real condition.
I am not sure about that. NGC says ''deep green gold colorations'' would be normal for this issue.
I think the reason for that is an impure alloy that oxidized over time. My Area of Expertise are german gold coins and this happend from time to time. I think the 90% gold were important and the 10% copper arbitrary/not as pure.
PS: Sorry for my bad english
mir gefaellt die Muenze gut.
Sollte mindestens ne MS63 sein.
Nahe Goldpreis bis max. 800- Euro kannst du die kaufen.
Danach 5 Minuten in reinen Alkohol einlegen und dann am 8. Februar ab nach Muenchen zum on- site grading.
Yes, some coins are known for a green-gold appearance. However, very carefully compare the naturally toned green-gold look of the coin that messydesk shows in post #13, compared to the look of the coin you originally posted. The one he shows is what NGC is talking about - it has a very different appearance than the one you posted. When they say "green gold" they don't mean its going to be overtly green - its just going to have a greenish hue. A blush of green. The same with "rose gold" or "pink gold." It's not going to be rosy colored, just subtly golden colored with a tinge of rose.
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