Your Opinion:10 Dollar 1910 D Indian Head

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Alexthegreat, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. Alexthegreat

    Alexthegreat Active Member

    Hey guys,
    what grading do you expect for this Denver mint coin?
    Greetings from Germany
    Alex
     

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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    There is a considerable amount of green contamination on this coin. There is a very distinct green ring around the rim on both sides, and green haze across many of the devices.

    I strongly suspect that this is contaminated with PVC, and needs to be conserved before you submit it (with that green, it will not be encapsulated - PVC is really bad). However, your advantage is that PVC contamination doesn't actually damage gold... it just needs to be conserved.

    Once the PVC is removed, I think this will grade 62 or 63. The lighting used for this picture is very strong and tends to oversaturate the luster and hide the marks, giving a somewhat washed out appearance. However, from what I see, this appears like it will be an attractive coin once properly conserved.

    If you are unfamiliar with conservation practices for coins, please do not try to do this yourself. NGC has a conservation service where, for a small fee, they will conserve the coin for you. Please, if you are not familiar with these practices, use that service. When done properly, conservation will significantly benefit this coin - if done improperly, it will utterly destroy the coin and any numismatic value.
     
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  4. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I feel like MS62 is a common grade for gold in general
     
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  5. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    I’d say 63. And I’d soak it in acetone then rinse with distilled water to get rid of the pvc
     
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  6. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    It needs to be professionally cleaned and restored to remove that light green looking hue.
     
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  7. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Methylene chloride or Chloroform will get rid of the PVC. Roll a wetted Q-tip over it - but no rubbing. Repeat until Q-tips are clean.
    Could 63 at highest.
     
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  8. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I think that it will grade MS-63 after the PVC is removed. As others have said, the PVC does not attack gold, but it should be removed.
     
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  9. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector Supporter

    True
    BUT
    The coin is only 90% gold.
    The other 10% is copper and PVC WILL attack copper.
     
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  10. Chuck_A

    Chuck_A Well-Known Member

    Is the squared far left leaf above the mint mark and the die break on the arrowhead a cause for concern of being a counterfeit? From my understanding there are many counterfeits in the Indian gold issue. I don't own any, but this would be a concern of mine prior to conservation and submission.
     
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  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The leaf is not actually square, there is a contact mark right there that makes it look odd with the lighting. And a die chip on its own is perfectly natural. I don't know what the diagnostics are for a genuine example of this date, or if there are known counterfeits - but a die chip or blem may help confirm or deny the authenticity. This particular coin does not look counterfeit to me, but you are correct that Indians are very highly counterfeited.
     
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  12. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I'm not convinced that there's PVC on it. The coloring reminds me of a 27-S Saint I shot many years ago that had a ring of green close to the rim, and a more pinkish tone elsewhere. It was in a 65 or 66 holder with a CAC sticker on it. I do agree that it's probably an MS62, and although I can't read the luster from these pictures, the pricing is pretty flat up to 63. It doesn't scream "counterfeit" to me, but as has been said, they are highly counterfeited, and skillfully so.

    Take a look at the greenish area under 10x or higher magnification and look for little bluish-green translucent blobs.
     
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  13. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I don't know that I've seen green toning of this shade and uniformity around just the outside rim of a coin like this.

    But look at the first 2 or 3 feathers of her headdress - that's pretty clear PVC in my mind.
     
  14. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Here's what it reminded me of. Note the color transition near the rim from 4:00 to 6:00.

    27s_obv.jpg
     
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  15. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Interesting look, John. One you don't see very often.

    I think there's a big difference between the Saint you show and the Indian in the OP, however.
     
  16. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Indeed, and not just a $275,000 difference. The Indian needs a close look and an acetone treatment, but it is possible that those colors can coexist. As an aside, you never forget some coins that you see. I took that picture over 10 years ago.
     
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  17. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Normally, I would agree with you. But, in this case, the proper procedure is a simple soak in pure acetone with a distilled water rinse. The only way you can screw that up is by not using 100% acetone, and, in that case, you can probably fix it by redoing the procedure with pure acetone.

    I agree it doesn't scream "counterfeit" to me, and I also can't get a read on any luster. MS-62 seems within reason, as does AU-58 potentially. Although, if it is a 58, it's only just barely got enough wear on it to be considered a circulated coin.

    Why bother? Just do the acetone treatment. It's so simple a 5 year old could do it correctly, provided you use pure acetone and distilled water.
     
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  18. Alexthegreat

    Alexthegreat Active Member

    Thank you very much for all the opinions! :D
    I decidet not to buy the coin, because of I am looking for a piece that is MS 63/64. This one is probably Ms 62 or even just AU 58. The pictures are not good enough to evaluate the real condition.

    I am not sure about that. NGC says ''deep green gold colorations'' would be normal for this issue.
    https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/indian-head-10-1907-1933-pscid-68/1910-d-10-ms-coinid-18866
    I think the reason for that is an impure alloy that oxidized over time. My Area of Expertise are german gold coins and this happend from time to time. I think the 90% gold were important and the 10% copper arbitrary/not as pure.

    PS: Sorry for my bad english :bucktooth:
     
  19. Rheingold

    Rheingold Well-Known Member

    @Alexthegreat
    Hi Alex,
    mir gefaellt die Muenze gut.
    Sollte mindestens ne MS63 sein.
    Nahe Goldpreis bis max. 800- Euro kannst du die kaufen.
    Danach 5 Minuten in reinen Alkohol einlegen und dann am 8. Februar ab nach Muenchen zum on- site grading.;)
     
  20. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Yes, some coins are known for a green-gold appearance. However, very carefully compare the naturally toned green-gold look of the coin that messydesk shows in post #13, compared to the look of the coin you originally posted. The one he shows is what NGC is talking about - it has a very different appearance than the one you posted. When they say "green gold" they don't mean its going to be overtly green - its just going to have a greenish hue. A blush of green. The same with "rose gold" or "pink gold." It's not going to be rosy colored, just subtly golden colored with a tinge of rose.
     
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