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Message:: [QUOTE="Aestimare, post: 3207202, member: 98537"]Hello everybody, I'm a French, and this is my first thread on CT. I used to look to your talks, and I wished to thank you for what I benefit from all of you. My American language is limited, then feel free to correct me, and please, speak to me with simple words. I'm lost with idiomatic expressions, and my maximum humor I can pleasingly understand is TIF's dyslexic insomniac atheist ! [ATTACH=full]831696[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]831697[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]831698[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]831699[/ATTACH]@VenusCoins authors : Venus' trying to hide something, but what ? @Roman_Collector : nice Philistis, but why a monetary system with this 5 litrai, in parallel with a 16 litrai ? @ancient_coin_hunter : fantastic Balbinus. @SeverusAlexander : rare to find an officina mentioned on a such nice silver coin. Thanks for sharing. [USER=78244]@TypeCoin971793[/USER] : really nice eye appeal of your Roman coins, and at the moment I don't know anything about your Gold Key/Knife. But it seems to have constituted a considerable nest egg. [USER=77704]@panzerman[/USER] : I have decided to try to understand imperfection, ans I can sleep better since. Close ty your aureus, I'm not sure I could ! [USER=42634]@chrsmat71[/USER] : how not appreciating Syracusan coins ? [USER=28531]@H8_modern[/USER] [USER=56859]@TIF[/USER] : nice very speaking mythological scenes, that we can find again under Titus' reign. [USER=76086]@Ken Dorney[/USER] : to much to say about your coins. Your arguments are interesting. [USER=8959]@Eduard[/USER] : I can easily share the arguments that led you impacting your budget. [USER=4298]@Cucumbor[/USER] : I don't speak about your coin that's a pinnacle in its category. [USER=51347]@Alegandron[/USER] : I'm particularly sensitive to your Etrurian coin especially cause its decimal system was soon established, and Romans didn't understand the benefit they could bring to their culture. Simplification isn't always chosen. Your coin is in addition admirable. [USER=74282]@red_spork[/USER] coin : I'm always interested in overstruck Republican bronze coins as they can be witnesses of monetary reforms . Your coin tells a story I don't know, but I registered it a long time ago, before it becomes yours, waiting the day I will learn more about it. Nice coin. @all_of_you : thank you to have help me to fill in my photographic documentation, embellished by your comments. What I most love, when acquiring a coin, is the research, and when I (imagine) I have linked some facts, as everybody I suppose, comes satisfaction. The coin I have decided to speak about, doesn't belong to me. I proposed to a friend of mine to buy it. And I wrote this sheet, the way I'm used to presenting some of his coins, and some of mines.[ATTACH=full]831696[/ATTACH]What's first questioning when you see this coin, is that the exactly same coin does exist with ITALIA written in place of VITELIU. No need to be Champollion deciphering the Rosetta stone to state the parallel of languages. [ATTACH=full]831697[/ATTACH]Thank to Carthago for his photo : <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/roman-social-war-italian-bull-goring-a-roman-wolf.270756/page-2" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/roman-social-war-italian-bull-goring-a-roman-wolf.270756/page-2">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/roman-social-war-italian-bull-goring-a-roman-wolf.270756/page-2</a> As I wrote it in French, this VITELIU denarius is a symbol of the fights against inequalities, reaching its paroxysm with this episode, when power expression assert itself by assassinating a tribune of the plebeians who was asking Roman citizenship for Italian people. A revolt follows, sufficiently significant to produce a varied coinage. It's interesting to notice that representatives of the “Socii” (allied) revolt are using, on the VITELIU denarius, a language non specific to Rome, Greek or Latin with which it shares his roots, but a typical italic one : Oscan. The insurgents used Latin too, as established by Carthago's denarius : the minimum was to be understood by most of people and by ennemies. (But not all of the Oscan coins were though translated in Latin : idea, just as an aside). For a long time, I was questioning about Italy's etymology, Wikipedia postulating this entity is a geographic one, what's uncertain, as Mathilde Mahé-Simon (Ecole normale supérieure, Paris; L’Italie chez Tite-Live : l’ambiguïté d’un concept) conclude at the end of her deep study, where geographic, ethnic, politic and juridical origins are discussed, considering that all epigraphic sources (I exaggerate, cause her study concern exhaustively just Tite Live, but her other references are numerous) didn't focussed on one of these notions, but on a semantically fluctuant concept. What's soon pleasing, is that the first occurrence of the word ITALIA is stated with these Marsic denarii ! Wikipedia noticed, according to Virgile's Aeneid, that Italia was the name Italos of a king, that Herakles would have named the place Italia while looking for an animal of Geryon's cattle, that aithô referring in Greek to fire could have explain why, for closest Eastern people considering the glow of a sunset on the west, called Italy aithalia, not forgetting to bring together the origin of the radical of Etna. I digressed briefly, cause trying to understand modestly the evolution of languages, considering primitive alphabets, predominantly consonantal, so far I can have perceived, translation in different modern languages appeared to me more evident by excluding vowels, and holding an etymological root of a comparing word in my language more than a more direct equivalent. The last hypothesis of Wikipedia about Italia's etymology, states that it could have been “borrowed via Greek from Oscan Víteliú 'land of calves' (cf. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" rel="nofollow">Lat</a> vitulus "calf", <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrian_language" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrian_language" rel="nofollow">Umb</a> vitlo "calf")”. That's what I had observed when trying to understand the greek etymology of the word ETOYC. I don't remember where, but someone wrote an article wondering if dates were merely dates or no on many Greek coins. The ones with ETOYC (read et'-os, year in Greek) abbreviated or not are not doubtful, nor thanthe ones introduced by what looks like an L but isn't (Egyptian origin: maybe the vertical bar defines an origin point, and the horizontal bar indicates a duration). But many other coins without these comput (=calendar) indicators can be discussed. To precise ETOYC's concept, I first noted that those were the same words in ancient and modern Greek. <a href="https://archive.org/details/dictionnairety00bois/page/292" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://archive.org/details/dictionnairety00bois/page/292" rel="nofollow">https://archive.org/details/dictionnairety00bois/page/292</a> (it's in French, sorry !) It refers to the year, and by extension, to animals of their first year of life, giving an example: calf, French “veau” (pronounced “vo”) that can be compared to Sanskrit “vatsah”, and Vedic “sa-vatarau”, and even Aeolian “etalon” (same word as in French : “étalon” = American stallion); and it refers by an other extension, on the opposite side, to many years (there's no contradiction, just imagine that many years of use of a word transform its meanings -what Mathilde Mahé-Simon called semantic flux-, and derision for example, is a cultural way that everybody uses that implies often two opposite meanings for a same word), and gave the words “vetus veteris” = vieux, in French “vétuste” (= very old, obsolete). In France, if you say to a 50 years old lady that she looks 20, there's no derision, you just try to save your life... Hence, the denarius of Q Voconius Vitulus, well knownfor its punning allusion to his cognomen Vitulus, comes clear. [ATTACH=full]831698[/ATTACH]<a href="https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10452475n.r=denarius%20526?rk=193134;0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10452475n.r=denarius%20526?rk=193134;0" rel="nofollow">https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10452475n.r=denarius 526?rk=193134;0</a> And our VITELIU denarius too :  illustrates an armed warrier (=metaphor for war) close to a calf (I'm kidding, a big bull) (=metaphor for Italian people). Maybe Roman citizens could have speak about Italian people using derision, considering them as calves, and therefore, insurgents have decided to illustrate a well grown calf, now a big bull goring a she-wolf (what cannot be seen, here is another interpretation), Rome of course.[ATTACH=full]831699[/ATTACH]<a href="http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=1154172&partId=1&searchText=1867%2C0101.1110&page=1" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=1154172&partId=1&searchText=1867%2C0101.1110&page=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=1154172&partId=1&searchText=1867%2c0101.1110&page=1</a> Hoping I wasn't too boring, and I have interested some of you, even though these stories are more and more widespread. Waiting for your answers, questions, critics or remarks.[/QUOTE]

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