YOU are Invited: The First Official CoinTalk Meet and Greet at FUN 2020

MORE than it's worth? Not to the person who placed the bid apparently. You seem to be establishing a fixed value to the object (could be anything in an auction). Value is often a moving target.

I stand by my original statement. YMMV

 

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I’ve paid 2x FMV for a coin because there was something special about it that only I would see and no one else would care about. I regret it not

 

Apples and oranges comparing auctions to tele-ripoffs. In an auction the gavel comes down on a price one person offered at or above the initial price. If it's above the initial price it is only because at least two people bid on it. Those two, or more, people are establishing the FMV at that time.

Using the 2010 proof set as your argument is an analogy that is misleading. Why not use an MS67 1909 S VDB? Or a modern coin such as the 1995 W ASE PR?

The point is, situations vary. Making a blanket statement that an auction sale does not establish FMV is just as unrealistic as your 2010 proof set scenario.

 

Some awesome stuff there. That’s for sure

 

In Economics 101, you are taught that price depends on a certain set of conditions: linear pricing (many items of similar or idential background)...perfect information by both sellers and buyers...marginal cost equal to marginal price....etc.

Few of those conditions are met when dealing with coins, no 2 of which are identically alike but even those which are "close enough" to be called substitutable are often subject to varying forces which preclude perfect economic pricing conditions. 2 identical coins can get different pricing if one is auctioned in late-August when people are on vacation vs. another one in mid-September when folks return.

You don't see toothpaste and other mass-produced goods changing price that often and by degree.

 

Doug is correct....UNeducated buyers are not armed with perfect or even reasonably good information.

 

I'm going to counter this with the experts on the television show Antiques Roadshow. Those experts, who purportedly know their business as well as the item in hand, will often give their expert appraisal with a range of value. Fair enough for you? It is for me. The kicker is this. Those same experts will oftentimes qualify their appraisal saying they wouldn't be at all surprised in an auction setting having the price they quoted easily be exceeded. Not because of uneducated bidders, but because the establishment of a FMV is not always an exact science. Value to one person does not always translate the same to all. How many times have we heard, 'if you like it, buy it!'.

See above.

Your interpretation of worth or value doesn't always translate to someone else's idea of value. And saying they don't know what they're doing is an arrogance I don't subscribe to.

 

MS, I think what Doug is saying is that with the exception of something which posesses RARITY or UNIQUE traits -- i.e., one of a kind stuff or close to it -- that FMV is pretty well established by comparables in the open market.

For instance...at FUN, they just auctioned off a 1927-D Saint. There are only 7 of them that trade, give-or-take. Higher quality 1927-D's had gone for about $2 MM or so and you could make a case that a 65+ graded coin should go for less.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/1927-d-20-ms66-pcgs/a/1136-2331.s

However, the previous auctions were many years back...different coin and economic environments....so the 65+ auctioned off at FUN actually went for just under $2 MM because who knows when the next one will available. Even though it's probably one of the lower-graded ones out there.

OTOH, I got an MS66 1923-D Saint (for much less than $2 MM) at pretty much FMV plus a bit of a premium for getting a fairly high-end coin. I was willing to pay an additional 5-10%...but not 25-50%.

 

You beat me to it. I was just going to say the exact same thing!

 

Anyone know where the exhibit winners at Fun are posted? I can find last years but not this years.

 

Hey....if anybody wants to see what I bought @ FUN, I'm posting the coins (and bills) in the NEW ACQUISITIONS threads rather than take up space here.

 

Don't post in the "new acquisitions" thread. Most people don't look at that. Start a new thread.

 

I can post them here or create a new FUN Acquisitions Thread if you think others will join in.

????

 

How about linking your new thread to this thread

 

Lord willing I hope to make it next year hope y'all having fun. ✌️

 

I wanted to attend this so bad tried everything
Sounded like a blast

 

We'll do it again next year, and also coordinate hotel accomodations so we can all stay close to one another.

It's easy to hang out when you are all staying in the same hotel.