Yes folks icg got it right

Do you remember who it was that called that awesome cent struck on a already stuck dime as PMD was ? I remember seeing it but it has slipped my mind who made that PMD call or whatever it was they said. I can show you that thread if you want to see it . this was probably the worst call I can remember since I have been on the CT forum.

 

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Rascal,
There are some people here that are quick to say PMD. There are others here that say PMD because they know what they are talking about. The problem is that you lump them all in one basket because they don't agree with your opinion. If you look back in my history on this site there are quite a few cases where I have dissagreed with the people claiming PMD and when I do I state my reasons because i believe it is the duty of those that know to educate those who don't. I have also had cases where people were told that they had a nice error, by someone that really didn't know what they were talking about, and i have had to tell them it wasn't what they were told it was. If i have a theory i will let you know its a theory and if its a guess i let you know its a guess.
In this case it is not a theory and its not a guess.

Richard

 

great post here and I am proud of you for admitting you made a mistake. It takes a real man to admit when they are wrong. I always apoligize to folks when I know I did something wrong and will stick to my guns when I'm almost certain I'm right.

 

Richard you are only going by what you can see in my bad photo. I'm sure you would change you mind if you could see this coin in hand. and I agree with most of your post and some of you must be trying to include me in the newbie collector group. I have been collecting coins since probably back before you were born unless you are older than the hills like me.

 

I do not remember. Please post the thread so that I can extract some numbers.

Remember, you're supposed to be referring to threads where folks simply state PMD without offering explanations or their opinions. You're not supposed to be linking threads where one person has made an incorrect call.

 

Rascal, you mention how calls of PMD might make newbies shy away from asking, ( although I am not agreeing with this premise), and yet you want to call out someone for making

. This is a double standard in my "opinion".

This certainly won't encourage others to post their opinions. An opinion is just an opinion! and with as many horrible photos as we see, it is usually a shaky opinion at that! Reputations are determined by many factors, but self promoting has never been a way to do it. To paraphrase " Reputations are made the hard way, they are earned".

​

 

Looks like rascal is out to save the world from all us horrid newbies or experts on this forum. Oh, the humanity! The losses of true coin collectors of the future if we don't immediately stop our games and let rascal school the people who show their coins!

Someone wantonly jumping into the CT lake where people are swimming just fine:

 

Hey what are you doing with my dog ? This jack russell looks almost like mine,eccept rascal has a golden brown head and a big perfecly round golden brown spot on the center of his back. I have owned many breeds of dogs and the jack russells have become my favorite type. They are always doing something to intertain folks. my dog loves going to the park and pushing one of his basketballs all over the place. He also loves swimming in the river or lake retrieving things but hates the swimming pool.The kids love to play with him.

 

What is the difference between a minting error and a variety. Well it is really kinda straight forward.

The mint manufactures two different products. One product is coins the other product is dies. Each product is manufactured through their own distinct manufacturing process. Coins are the finished good we, the general public, collect, use or spend on a daily basis. Dies are a finished good, a manufacturing machine part, utilized by the mint to strike the design on a coin in the coin manufacturing process.

A minting error is an anomaly presented on a coin whose origins can be traced and attributed to the coin manufacturing process. An error in the production of the coin itself, so to speak. Die cracks, broad strikes, strike throughs, cuds, die clashes and etc are minting errors as their origins are attributable and tracable to the coin manufacturing process.

A variety is an anomaly presented on a coin whose origins can be traced and attributed to the die manufacturing process. An error in the production of the die itself, so to speak. RPM's, Doubled Dies, Trail Dies, Wavy Steps, etc are varieties as their origins are tracable and attributable to the die manufacturing process.

 

There is no consensus as to what constitutes a minting error and what constitutes a die variety. Guys like Ken Potter and the VAMers consider any blemish or defect on a die to be a die variety. Guys like Chuck Daughtrey and James Wiles restrict "die variety" to doubled dies, RPMs, repunched dates, repunched mintmarks, overmintmarks and the like. They would place cuds, die cracks, clashed dies, die gouges, die dents, Type II counterclashes, and concentric lathe marks in the category of "die error".

As long as you understand the nature and origin of the specific defect, it doesn't matter what the overaching category is.

 

This is pretty much why I made this (intentionally) dumb comment. As Mike said, errors are not relegated solely to the actual production of coins.

However, this raises another question for me. Would a coin with an "experimental finish" be considered a variety or an error?

Chris

 

If the "experimental finish" was intentional then it would be a variety IMO. Are you referring to the 2001 Sacagawea's with the "Experimental Rinse"?

 

No, but I don't want to go into too much detail until after FUN.

Chris

 

Sorta a vague on specifics here but based on your question I would lean more of classifing the coin as a "type" or maybe a "pattern" as opposed to a variety or minting error.

 

Good point! Who knows?

Chris

 

If you're talking about a finish imparted on the coin by the dies, I'd consider that a variety, as long as there's no other major changes, unless you're talking about something that clearly is miles off what we are used to, IE a reverse proof on a regular business-strike coin.

Why? Simple... it was part of the process of creating the die, a different step taken. Much like a doubled die or a CAM/WAM, except we don't know if it was intentional or not. I suppose if you did know it was intentional, you could make a very strong case to call it a pattern or test strike.

 

I'm starting to like this discussion , this is the way it should be . Now we are getting on the right track and new coin collectors can learn some things.

 

No thanks to you, I would note.

 

I'll know more after FUN, and then I'll go into more detail. There is no point in discussing it now. I would get too many opinions I don't need.

Chris

 

Chris,

I'm interested in hearing what you have come up with. I'll wait till after fun!