Wow... An interactive investigation into the disappearance of a rare hoard of ancient coins

There are two choices...
A/ The finders report the hoard/ all coins end up in a museum
B/ Finders keep hoard secret/ coins end up in auctions/ find many new homes in our collections

 

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If they end up in museums they may never get published and lost or sold.
In museums they become like personal property of the curators and perish anyone without a presidential decree getting access to them.

See my rant "The British Museum, Unesco 1970, coin collectors and me" on academia.edu under my name John Arnold Nisbet, see also my "The Odyssey of the Poggio Pincenze Hoard IGCH 2056" also on academia.edu.

 

I think that I actually saw one of these decadrachms, I believe, late last year. The images were sent by an Israeli dealer who was visiting the US at the time (last September), so I assumed that the coin resided in the US (LA area).


At the time the dealer wanted to know what type of coin this was. I replied that it was a decadrachm. A later inquiry from me about this coin resulted in a reply that it was sold. I don't know if it was private party or through auction.

I found the video both very interesting and troubling at a personal level. I guess I was just born this way.

 

While I agree that museums can, at times, be problematic, even corrupt institutions, depending on the countries where they are located, I do agree with the video's point that issues of a coin's provenance, and the fudging of a coin's provenance, is a problem in terms of understanding, historically, where the coin was originally discovered.

But this is part of the much larger problem these days, where war, (the destruction archaeological sites and the sacking of museums), corruption and poverty contribute to a loss in our ability to document and improve our understanding of human civilization. Let us not forget that dedicated professionals have died trying to protect and preserve cultural sites, such as Palmyra in Syria.

 

Recent history clearly illustrates this point. Those scumbags called ISIS/ Taliban just wantonly destroyed ancient sites, among all their other "war crimes".

 

Very interesting indeed. This dekadrachm seems to be none of the previously auctioned ones. It is another "new" one. [sarcasm] Probably from an old Canadian family collection made in the 1950s [/sarcasm] How many more are going to be distilled one after one?

We shall probably have to wait during several years now. With the Coronavirus crisis, stocks are plummetting and fewer people are likely to invest in the antiquities market. The present owners of the rest of the hoard will probably wait for better times before commissioning new dekadrachms...

 

After seeing prices bid on Heritage Auction, I see the pandemic is having opposite effect. Prices realized have been hot for past 25 years, even more so with the choas caused by the Corona virus.

 

The funny thing in this story is about the 4 dekadrachms seized by the Israeli police at the Gaza border. These 4 very rare and valuable coins were handled to the Israel Antiquities Authority, an official government institution. Now what? These coins are not the property of Israel, and the law states that Israel must repatriate antiquities seized from smugglers to the country in which they had been looted. But... but... repatriate these exceptional coins to a country Israel does not recognize? No way, over their dead body ! To Iraq, maybe, where the coins have been minted (all Alexander dekadrachms were minted in Babylon) ? Hmmm bad idea. To Macedonia (after all it's Macedonian currency, the coins bear the name of the then king of Macedonia)? Which one, Greece or North Macedonia who are at odds about which land has the right to be called Macedonia? Give these coins an international status like... er... Jerusalem is officially supposed to have? Nooooooooo !... I noticed that in the documentary they say the IAA declined to comment.

 

The bureaucrats, (both inside government and universities), simply want all of the power and ability to make money. They care nothing for the coins or history, they selfishly simply want ALL of the coins so THEY can pad their own pockets when they feel like it.

Bureaucracy simply hates freedom and capitalism. In their minds, they are smarter and superior to the "peasants", so therefor they are entitled to make all decision.

Look at the decrepit condition bags full of ancients are stored in like the Egyptian museum. Bags with thousands of ancients lined up in basements rotting away, but if a collector lays his hands on one to preserve it a stiff jail sentence awaits him.

 

Could not agree more! Private collectors take much better of artifacts then museums.

 

@Xavier DDL Did you try to ask to Roma Numismatics? They read the forum.

 

So the suspicious character who allegedly provided Roma with some of the tets is also the owner of Athena Numismatics? I suppose he didn't feel the need to apply the orange patina beforehand.

 

Or the "beautiful" blue toning he seems often to apply, as to the Hadrian Aegyptos denarius I bought from him (see https://www.cointalk.com/threads/suggestions-for-sellers-on-vcoins.357976/page-2#post-4325108), or to these examples, among others, currently for sale on VCoins:

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/at...r_denarius_bold_portrait/1296224/Default.aspx

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/at...obert_o_ebert_collection/1296226/Default.aspx

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/at...216214beautifully_toned__/557601/Default.aspx

 

I'm not sure it's fair to make a generalization that all museums with numismatic collections are that negligent.

 

I think you are correct - the decadrachm shown in that grainy image doesn't seem to have been sea salvaged, judging from its weight and overall appearance. The other decadrachms that I saw in the video show tell tale signs of sea salvage and a couple look like they have significant corrosion.

The video was a real eye opener. I was not aware that a hoard of Alexander III decadrachms were found off of the coast of Gaza. I like to collect Attica tetradrachms found in the general area, both Athenian and imitative, so I know that Gaza and Palestina was an important area for trade in ancient times, especially for spices from Arabia, but that discovery of the decadrachms is truly extraordinary.

I recall that there was a sea find of archaic Athenian tetradrachms was made many years ago, but I forgot the location and year. This is the only other salvage that I know, but I am sure there have been many more, both large and small discoveries.

The image of the decadrachm came out of the blue, and I was quite surprised to receive it with the innocuous query "Do you know what this is?". In the past I have helped this dealer identify Ptolemaic tetradrachms, but nothing of this nature. I have purchased various tetradrachms from him, but I was totally unaware that he had a decadrachm, unless, possibly, he was acting for someone else.

A few months ago the same dealer sent me message with the image of Athenian tetradrachms from a hoard reportedly from Syria, that was on the market, so he apparently has access to coins entering the market from local sources (this only part of the hoard):

 

This is the problem. Both sides are so antagonistic towards each other there seems to be little middle ground. People like Paul Barford calling any collector of antiquities criminals and coin fondlers and the collectors condemning museums and academics in broad generalizations who are seeking to preserve sites for study. There is no middle ground on either side. Collectors of antiquities are tantamount to looters and collectors should all be able to collect whatever they like with no restriction. There is little middle ground, at least where it counts, as far as I have seen.

There are those like me who see both sides but sadly I have been labeled a coin fondler by Barford as well when I sought to discuss the issue with him and told by coin sellers how MOUs...all of them... are wrong for a variety of reasons. Seems like one of those heavily contentious issues that will never be resolved.

Sadly looting does destroy possible archeological sites,.even the US restricts what you can do at certain sites. You will be arrested if you go metal detecting at battlefield park... buying ancient coins does encourage looting, antagonism against collectors puts them in constant defense and positions them against any measures to resolve such issues. Both can coexist if you ask me. I would love to know exactly where my coins were unearthed.

I have seen here collectors postulating about where their coins were found. Its true that more coins than will ever be displayed in any museums are sitting in warehouses...they could bring money to the museums but instead they hold them as in their minds private collecting encourages looting...they aren't necessarily wrong about that but also simply outlawing collecting these things isn't the answer either...it just assures that it will always continue. The British MOU is ideal and even then it doesn't stop all looting....but it works rather well

 

I was speaking more of source country museums. I have heard many, many stories of coins disappearing or rotting in those institutions.

 

In addition, people living in poverty and in war zones are not inclined to report their finds to the authorities, and are very likely to sell their finds to the most readily available source of cash.

These fishermen in Gaza are desperately trying to support their families in the midst of war and blockade. I think this situation includes any location of the world where war, poverty and chaos prevail.

Also, during the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, I saw a story of looters going through the Iraq Museum who were using lists of items to be stolen, something obviously planned well in advance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Iraq

War creates humanitarian and cultural catastrophes.