Would the Forum Experts please comment on these two coin

There is a story behind these two coins that I will elaborate on at a later date.
Some of you may already know it
I would welcome comments about grades and or anything you might want to say in
general about these two coins.

Once again thank you for taking time out of your busy day.

 

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no hope:
Well, the 1864 is a large motto.
Hard to tell for sure, but the 1865 may be a repunched date, look between the 8 & the 6.

Nice coins, I am sure that others will disagree, but they may unc.

 

Treashunt
Its a fancy 5 variety the mark you can see is a die crack that runs from the bottom of the 1 to the mid point of the 5 its an indicator of a specific variety of fancy 5

 

sure, but I was sure that you knew that, about the fancy 5.

 

Its part of the reason I am asking everyone to look at these two coins. I want to see what others see in them. I am more than happy that you saw something in the date..

 

To me, it looks like the 1864 was cleaned a long time ago. Could be wrong though.
Guy~

 

Well I am no expert but what I do know is that I like them a lot :bow:

 

Great coins! There is nothing like seasoned copper with that mottled toning to give me a case of "the wants". The 1864 does appear to have cleaning marks over the leaves on the right side, but I suppose it is possible that the planchet had striations running throught it prior to the strike. In any case, I would call them unc. Are you sure the 1865 is not a repunched date? Congrats on some fine coins!

 

<------------------ hardly a forum expert, but

Frank:

I for one, agree, those coins are unc or at worst lightly rubbed (way back then) and then toned over the next 100 years or so. If those grade lower than 58, I will eat my hat.

 

No matter what, those are some nice coins. I've said it before, but any time you can find one with the "WE" intact, it's a great find.
Guy~

 

I dont think the first ones been cleaned , seems like the actual metal mixture itsself

 

they have both been in the hands of so called TPG experts and cleaning was never mentioned.

 

Excellent pictures !!!!

Don't know much about 2 cent coins but they both look attractive

 

Very attractive AUNCs, nearly mint state, nice toning. 1865 has an amnolity on the top of the 5.