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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Vegas Vic, post: 1980297, member: 58810&quot;]There is legal and there is ethical. As I posted in another thread it is illegal for a coin dealer to tell someone (in the state of Nevada) their $5000 coin is only worth $50 and then buy it at $50.</p><p><br /></p><p>It is also illegal for a coin dealer to tell a customer that a $50 coin is worth $5000 and then sell them the coin. While it is relatively easy to prove the first example it is much harder to prove the second. Is the coin toned and worth twice market rate? Did the cac sticker raise the value 80%? Would it sell for the asking price within ten years on ebay?</p><p><br /></p><p>I believe there is an ethical limit not otherwise specified where you do cross the line from ethical to immoral.</p><p><br /></p><p>My experience that while we could debate percentages that most of the time either the dealer is reasonable or is trying to pull a fast one.</p><p><br /></p><p>For example,</p><p><br /></p><p>I personally think this example is unethical. Selling a coin that would resale for under half the asking price. I cropped the name off because I&#039;m not trying to call anyone out with this example. So the title and grade on the coin missing but it is a 1881 s S$1 ngc ms 65 cac.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]353090[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Even if the coin graded 66 the ask in the gray is $300. You can tell me buy the coin not the plastic ect all you want this is my personal belief and morality. If someone asked me if this is ethical I would say no.</p><p><br /></p><p>I honest believe in my own nonlawyer personal belief that this example goes beyond unethical and I personally believe this sale would violate Nevada law. [ATTACH=full]353121[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]353122[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Photograde shows this as the pcgs example of ms67.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]353124[/ATTACH]</p><p>I know I post this example a lot but in this case were I on a jury I believe that this sale would meet the below definition .</p><p>[ATTACH=full]353129[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>You have someone relaying on the dealer to honestly represent the coin and this dealer is selling a coin that would be an example in any of the articles on coin fraud and third rate tpg scams. The dealer is omitting the fact it is priced at pcgs levels and even a pcgs ms66 sells only around $70. Further there is the false representation that this coin really is a ms67. Maybe the police would never arrest this dealer. Maybe no jury would convict but there really are two lines in my opinion. There is the ethical/unethical and the illegal. And in my strict and personal opinion this second example represents the illegal. This is a $20 coin being sold for $499.99. In any court if there was a state appointed expert (one not receiving a check from the defense) I believe they would never say this coin was worth the price nor properly represented.</p><p><br /></p><p>I believe that while legal it is unethical to offer someone $50 for a $5000 coin if you don&#039;t misrepresent the coin and just say something to the effect of &quot;I&#039;ll give you $50 for that coin&quot;. I understand if you are buying a raw coin from a customer and there is a $50 to $5000 jump with one grade buying the coin at $50. But a pcgs/ngc slabbed coin has measured value and getting this one wrong would bother me. Again there are examples where the coin could be over graded that one point and you again don&#039;t want to take the risk. But outside extreme examples I do believe most coins fall into the realm of easy to define ethics.</p><p><br /></p><p>These are real life examples. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and maybe I just have a higher expectation from others. Doug can tell me I can&#039;t judge until he is blue in the face and bleeding from typing trauma this is my belief and defination of coin ethics and I&#039;ll judge the situation as I see fit. I don&#039;t get to throw anyone in jail I am not a professional judge but this is my moral standing. And I have had a table at a show and do have a small taste of what it is like on the dealer side even if it was only for three short days.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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