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<p>[QUOTE="Troodon, post: 383000, member: 4626"]If you're making the point with sarcasm that I think you are, I fully agree. You can't judge countries/people/etc. by the actions of their ancestors, because if you do, nobody is innocent. Everybody on the face of the earth, regardless of their nationality or ethinicity has ancestros who have done things they're not proud of if you go back enough generations... and it's never as far back as you'd prefer to think.</p><p><br /></p><p>I have always thought the best way to marginalize neo-nazis, holocaust deniars, and other assorted nutcases is to let them be free to make fools of themselves. Banning them from expressing themselves only allows them to fuel their presecution complexes and let them claim perverseley that there must be something to their theories if governemnts are actively trying to supress them (it also runs into free speech issues, if you're one of those, like me, that believe free speech is a fundamental right that should be protected everywhere... and it's not just speech that you agree with that is worthy of protection.) Austria, Germany, and other countries have various laws in place that violate free speech prinicples for the sake of trying to prove that they're wholly apologetic about their past... I can possibly comend their motivations if not their actual actions in this regard. Nazi coins and stamps are a part of history... yes an objectionable part that I'm glad modern Germany is not proud of... but trying to destroy the evidence of it is if anything, an insult to those that survived it. The fact that owning and selling such things are illegal in Germany is neither here nor there... there's lots of laws I disagree with, even in my own country... one country's laws is not the end all of ethical discussion.</p><p><br /></p><p>As for the point of the sinking of the Central America being an act of God and 9/11 being an intentional act... ok, what about the Binion hoard then? He was murdered, was he not? Yet people actively trade coins that were formerly in his posession with a premium attached for their interesting provenance. OK just 1 murder and not nearly 3,000, but same principle should apply, if there is one to apply, isn't there? You're free to disapprove of those who want to buy and sell coins with a WTC provenance of course, but as for me, I don't see such activity as either "profting from tragedy" or somehow endorsing the actions of the 9/11 terrorists. The same way I just can't bring myself to see anything wrong with buying coins with the mark of objectionable periods of histroy of a provenance with one disaster ( either man-made or natural) or another. I just can't bring myself to see it that way. Maybe if the proceeds were going directly to a currently extant objectionable regime, maybe... but money spent on Nazi coins doesn't travel backwards in time to support Hitler's toppled regime and money spent on coins recovered from the WTC does not go to al Qaeda to support theit activities. I have many banknotes from Sadaam Hussein's regime... but he is dead and out of power and despite the disapproval I had for his regime and my sympathy for those who suffered under it, my conscience doesn't bother me a bit to buy such notes for my collection.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Troodon, post: 383000, member: 4626"]If you're making the point with sarcasm that I think you are, I fully agree. You can't judge countries/people/etc. by the actions of their ancestors, because if you do, nobody is innocent. Everybody on the face of the earth, regardless of their nationality or ethinicity has ancestros who have done things they're not proud of if you go back enough generations... and it's never as far back as you'd prefer to think. I have always thought the best way to marginalize neo-nazis, holocaust deniars, and other assorted nutcases is to let them be free to make fools of themselves. Banning them from expressing themselves only allows them to fuel their presecution complexes and let them claim perverseley that there must be something to their theories if governemnts are actively trying to supress them (it also runs into free speech issues, if you're one of those, like me, that believe free speech is a fundamental right that should be protected everywhere... and it's not just speech that you agree with that is worthy of protection.) Austria, Germany, and other countries have various laws in place that violate free speech prinicples for the sake of trying to prove that they're wholly apologetic about their past... I can possibly comend their motivations if not their actual actions in this regard. Nazi coins and stamps are a part of history... yes an objectionable part that I'm glad modern Germany is not proud of... but trying to destroy the evidence of it is if anything, an insult to those that survived it. The fact that owning and selling such things are illegal in Germany is neither here nor there... there's lots of laws I disagree with, even in my own country... one country's laws is not the end all of ethical discussion. As for the point of the sinking of the Central America being an act of God and 9/11 being an intentional act... ok, what about the Binion hoard then? He was murdered, was he not? Yet people actively trade coins that were formerly in his posession with a premium attached for their interesting provenance. OK just 1 murder and not nearly 3,000, but same principle should apply, if there is one to apply, isn't there? You're free to disapprove of those who want to buy and sell coins with a WTC provenance of course, but as for me, I don't see such activity as either "profting from tragedy" or somehow endorsing the actions of the 9/11 terrorists. The same way I just can't bring myself to see anything wrong with buying coins with the mark of objectionable periods of histroy of a provenance with one disaster ( either man-made or natural) or another. I just can't bring myself to see it that way. Maybe if the proceeds were going directly to a currently extant objectionable regime, maybe... but money spent on Nazi coins doesn't travel backwards in time to support Hitler's toppled regime and money spent on coins recovered from the WTC does not go to al Qaeda to support theit activities. I have many banknotes from Sadaam Hussein's regime... but he is dead and out of power and despite the disapproval I had for his regime and my sympathy for those who suffered under it, my conscience doesn't bother me a bit to buy such notes for my collection.[/QUOTE]
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