World silver crown-size type coin collectors?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Ag76, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. Mkman123

    Mkman123 Well-Known Member

    I can appreciate the collectors who collect raw and only want raw coins. However with the proliferance of fakes out there, why take the chance for yourself or your heirs? I don't want someone wondering if possibly my collection of world crown sized coins could be fake or not, this is one of the reasons I collect slabbed coins, lower chance of fakes.

    How do you all feel?
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  3. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    I agree that slabbed coins give you more piece of mind about their authenticity. Collectors on budgets tend to take changes and to go for the lower price of raw coins.
  4. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    My opinion is that to each their own, and everyone is right. A lot of world coins aren't in slabs, so if you want certain coins, you likely won't find any slabbed examples. Collecting slabs only would severely limit what I can collect. There will always be a danger of fakes. The best way to combat this is to learn about strikes, wear, toning, etc, as well as about the coin itself. The more you know, the easier it is to detect fakes. You can also limit your purchassa to reputable dealers. This is not only in terms of their authenticity, but their opinion on the grade. Buying a slab will not guarantee the coin is authentic, but most will (assuming the slab is authentic). I also always try to get 2 or 3 opinions on a more expensive coin before I buy it. I think we all have a couple people we trust to give a solid opinion and not buy the coin out from under you. Most coins I own would not be worth the costs to slab them. If I can buy the coin for the price I want and it's already in a slab, I consider that a bonus.
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  5. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    I couldn't agree more to be honest! I once sent a slightly underweight 1-1/2 taler to be slabbed, to a well known TPG and it came back as a 2 taler!!!!This means that they sometimes(maybe never,i don't know how it works!) don't weight the coins, which is crucial for detecting possible fakes!!
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  6. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    5 Mark 1932/1 A , the overdate , apparently very rare! I had to check 100+ pieces online , to find this one ! My next 5 mark has to be a Zeppelin one, it’s just amazing !

    EC9C0C7F-2048-4EF8-8612-6544419A46EA.jpeg DAE55D84-EF6C-4033-A46D-B69921555886.jpeg
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  7. Gallienus


    I've always wanted both of those types: the Oak Tree & the Zepplin 5 marks. However I wasn't looking for the overdate but just any common date. I would always get outbid.

    I also wanted to respond to your 2 taler comment. Apparently some double talers were in fact underweight yet still served as doubles. I only have one of these coins (NGC slab -- VF details & expensive) but will have to crack it to weigh it.
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  8. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    I found about the overdate last year and kept searching until i found it, obviously the seller had no clue and it was really hard for me to spot it, i mean after checking so many identical pieces my eyes were in pain, until i got what i was looking for!
    Can't say i knew about the Zeppelin until i saw Hookman's 3 mark and then it became clear that i will have to buy one!
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  9. Gallienus


    Nice taler. I've a question. About a month ago someone posted a link to a site explaining the weights and equivalents of {I believe?} talers and kreuzers. I think a taler was 60 kreuzer? Unfortunately I lost the link and can no longer find it. You may have originally posted it. Would you have that link available?
  10. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    I did not post it and I don't know the link to which you are referring.
    A Taler was originally 60 Kreuzer but it got devalued over the centuries and the Kreuzer equivalent changed too. The Tyrol Guldiner of 1486, where Talers originated, weighed 31.93 g with 29.93 g of silver (0.9375), and was worth 60 Kreuzer. The Habsburg Guldiner in 1524 was also worth 60 Kreuzer but the weight had shrunk to 28.82 g, with a silver content of 25.78 g (0.895). The Reichsmünzordnung (Imperial Coinage Ordinance) of 1559 laid down a standard for a Reichsgulden of 24.62 g with a silver content of 22.89 g (0.931) but worth 60 Kreuzer. The 1566 Reichsmünzordnung laid down a standard for the Reichstaler of 29.23 g with a silver content of 25.98 (0.889) worth 68 Kreuzer or 24 Groschen. The Habsburgs in their own lands in 1573 struck Talers with a wt. of 28.82 g and silver content of 25.78 g (0.8945) but worth 70 Kreuzer.

    The process continued with new monetary standards too numerous to recount in detail. With a lot of below standard coinage being struck in the second half of the 17th century (the second Kipperzeit) Saxony and Brandenburg signed a monetary agreement at Zinna in 1668. Under the Zinna Standard the old Reichstaler were worth 105 Kreuzer and the standard centred on a Gulden or 2/3 Taler with a silver content of 14.819 g ( just over half the wt. of the old Half Taler ! ) worth 60 Kreuzer. However, in South Germany many mints were striking Gulden worth only 50 or even 40 Kreuzer. In 1690 Brandenburg, Saxony and Brunswick-Luneburg signed a new monetary treatment at Leipzig. The Gulden was given a weight of 17.322 g but with a silver content of only 12.922 g. The old Reichstaler, increasingly called Speciestaler to distinguish it from lesser Talers, were now worth 120 Kreuzer !

    The Convention Taler was introduced in Austria in 1750 and in Bavaria in 1753 and gradually spread across southern Germany and to Saxony. It had 23.385 grams of silver (10 to the fine Cologne mark). The Gulden of 60 Kreuzer was worth 1/2 Konventionstaler.
    When the Taler was finally discontinued in favour of the Mark coinage in 1873, it weighed but 18.4 g (0.906 fine).

    (The main source of all this is Vom Taler zu Dollar 1486-1986 by Hess & Klose (Staatliche Münzsammlung, Munich 1986).
  11. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    I bought one a few months ago after a long search for the right one.

  12. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    Congrats! It's a stunning piece!
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  13. Hookman

    Hookman Well-Known Member

    Here's some info on the Graf Zeppelin and it's flights, including the Around the World flight which was partially financed by William Randolph Hearst.

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  14. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    Germany BRUNSWICK-GRUBENHAGEN Philipp II alone Taler of 24 Groschen 1595

    Br-Grubenhagen Philipp II alone Taler of 24 Gr 1595 LD obv 664.jpg Br-Grubenhagen Philipp II alone Taler of 24 Gr 1595 LD rev 670.jpg
  15. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    1610 WA Saxe Weimar taler, joint rule of 8 brothers,

    This coin has a very unusual story, at least for me! So i bought it on ebay, from Germany and paid through the bank, which i normally avoid, unless it's a german, because i never had any 'honesty' issues with them! Now in this case, the seller kept saying that he didn't received the money though my transfer app was showing the opposite so i thought that i was being scammed for the first time! We went like that for more than two weeks until he realised that the money were paid into his account, but the transaction was not displaying my name, only a tranfer reference number! He decides it's safe to send it with DHL, for which he paid 18 euros! As i was following the online tracking system, i've noticed that the coin couldn't be delivered as there was a problem with my address(?) so calling their customer service system i was shocked to find out that the post code wasn't mine, but i was inspired enough to write it down! After 50 min of waiting in the phone, i was assured that the coin will not be sent to anyone until they launch an international investigation, as a result of my complain!Three days after, my coin was delivered to someone else (!!!!) and the customer service told me there's nothing they can do about it now!!! I thought i was going to explode at that point! Having saved that post code and the surname of the person who signed for the coin, i decided to google them together and found a gentleman that actually replied to my call. He told me that he was very surprised to receive a DHL box with his details on it and inside the box, there was a letter with my name on it and address (!!!!!) He was more than understanding and posted the coin to me at his own expense, for which i'm obviously very grateful! So i guess i'm lucky to have it in the end, but what a headache it caused me!

    D23A1922-96EE-487A-957B-B0D61C0D5C73.jpeg D8E473F8-4668-4133-B3C4-F907529D893D.jpeg
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  16. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    I've never had to go to those lengths to get a package but I have had my share of shipping worries.

    Here is my 1614 version of your coin. Yours has a more intricate border surrounding the brothers.

  17. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    Great details and toning, what a beautiful piece! I really like it, but your 1603 Erfurt taler is still my favourite!
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  18. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    I love these coins with all the brothers. They are charming !
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  19. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    1621 Graz Taler , Ferdinand II

    AE5AD1E3-667A-4BCB-82DE-1DD18D20968A.jpeg FEFF2324-61DE-4A01-A995-DA28F8579BB4.jpeg
  20. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    Germany HOHNSTEIN Volkmar Wolfgang alone Mining Taler 1579 Stuck in Andreasberg near the silver mine

    Hohnstein Volkmar Wolfgang Taler 1579 LD obv 805.jpg Hohnstein Volkmar Wolfgang Taler 1579 LD rev 812.jpg
  21. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    This market is on fire vs the top heavy US market. Slabbed world crowns smoking hot since Many low pop.
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